Spare by Prince Harry

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#3023588 19-Jan-2023 11:00

MikeAqua:

I'd rather have our current monarchy than a US-styled presidency. That's the only presidential model I'm familiar with. I'm not sure how the others perform.

I think they are different animals. The Monarchy has no power, nor gets voted in. The US style is a mess due to the House and the Senate. In NZ we have a vote, you win or you lose, if you win you govern unimpeded

Wombat1

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#3023589 19-Jan-2023 11:01

MikeAqua:

I'd rather have our current monarchy than a US-styled presidency. That's the only presidential model I'm familiar with. I'm not sure how the others perform.

badly... just take a look at South Africa and Zimbabwe

roobarb

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#3023657 19-Jan-2023 11:40

tdgeek:

[I think they are different animals. The Monarchy has no power, nor gets voted in. The US style is a mess due to the House and the Senate. In NZ we have a vote, you win or you lose, if you win you govern unimpeded

We still have the same monarchy in NZ with the Governor General being the King's reprepresentative. The US house and senate were originally modelled on the UK House of Commons and House of Lords with the president taking the role of the monarch, famously Washington refused to become King. In NZ the upper chamber voted itself out of existence.

SJB

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#3023665 19-Jan-2023 12:04

The monarchy doesn't survive because it has any political power. It survives because the majority of the people it 'rules' over want it to.

There have been times in the recent past, Edward VIII's attempt at marrying a divorcee and the handling of Diana's death for example, when the monarchy has been at risk of losing enough popularity that they were removed but those times passed.

Every poll taken in the UK in recent times has backed keeping the monarchy, generally by a large margin. This result is partly age based with younger people being less inclined to vote to keep them. That may change if William and Kate take over while they are relatively young in which case the margin to keep the monarchy would increase.

I can't see this situation changing for at least the next several decades.

It's a different matter of course with countries other than the UK keeping the King as Head Of State. It may be convenient for many politicians to support the status quo as it's the path of least resistance.

We don't need to switch to having a President of course. Maybe the sitting Prime Minister could also be the Head Of State. Unfortunately the UN stipulates that, to be a member, you need a Head Of State otherwise I'm sure a lot of countries would do without.

Kookoo

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#3024092 19-Jan-2023 16:49

Interestingly, if you check out the list of current monarchies, I'd argue they're mostly doing better than their regional neighbours.

Hello, Ground!

ezbee

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#3024273 19-Jan-2023 19:20

This is becoming way to funny, the British Monarchy does not RULE.
I'm pretty sure Boris politely told the Queen, we are not paying for Harry to lol around.

Ceremony and a tourist attraction. A bit of diplomatic service.
Trump wants to meet the Queen, Boris tells her to do her duty.
To her credit its a duty accepted with grace,
and even Charles has noted he has to hold his tounge now.

Its pretty silly to call this Ruling.

Putin would not recognize it, neither would Xi

tdgeek

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#3024326 19-Jan-2023 19:49

ezbee:

This is becoming way to funny, the British Monarchy does not RULE.
I'm pretty sure Boris politely told the Queen, we are not paying for Harry to lol around.

Ceremony and a tourist attraction. A bit of diplomatic service.
Trump wants to meet the Queen, Boris tells her to do her duty.
To her credit its a duty accepted with grace,
and even Charles has noted he has to hold his tounge now.

Its pretty silly to call this Ruling.

Putin would not recognize it, neither would Xi

100%. Its a great thing, keeping history alive, but I feel the last decade is exposing it. William may revive the younger Brits, but Harry and his wife could have kick started that. No im not a Harry or B List actress fan, but marketing matters. The admin of the machine is in the 1500's still

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#3024337 19-Jan-2023 20:47

ezbee:

This is becoming way to funny, the British Monarchy does not RULE.
I'm pretty sure Boris politely told the Queen, we are not paying for Harry to lol around.

Ceremony and a tourist attraction. A bit of diplomatic service.
Trump wants to meet the Queen, Boris tells her to do her duty.
To her credit its a duty accepted with grace,
and even Charles has noted he has to hold his tounge now.

Its pretty silly to call this Ruling.

Putin would not recognize it, neither would Xi

Don't dismiss ceremony and tourist attraction, that's estimated to be worth £2 billion a year to UK economy. The money paid to keep the royal circus operating is in return for income from previous royal estates being surrendered to govt. IIRC it was Boris that got tossed out for lolling around.

MikeAqua

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#3024702 20-Jan-2023 10:26

ezbee:

This is becoming way to funny, the British Monarchy does not RULE.

In this country, the King (via the GG) can dismiss, suspend or summon parliament, and/or withold assent to new legislation and/or withold warrants for ministers.

The sovereign definitely has power. It's just rarely exercised. But it's there if requried (as Gough Whitlam found out)

The NZ Constitution Act is an interesting(ish) read.

Mike

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#3024703 20-Jan-2023 10:27

Wombat1:

MikeAqua:

I'd rather have our current monarchy than a US-styled presidency. That's the only presidential model I'm familiar with. I'm not sure how the others perform.

badly... just take a look at South Africa and Zimbabwe

Those are highly dysfunctional countries. What about somewhere like France?

Mike

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#3024704 20-Jan-2023 10:33

MikeAqua:

Those are highly dysfunctional countries. What about somewhere like France?

Ptah! Filled with Le French.

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johno1234

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#3024705 20-Jan-2023 10:34

MikeAqua:

Those are highly dysfunctional countries. What about somewhere like France?

France has a crushing, monolithic bureaucracy and is unable to modernise or avoid stonewalling factions from unions to farmers. They are big and powerful enough to get away with it. Witness the current issue they have with retirement age. Currently it is 62. They really should up that as people live and can be productive so much longer and the population is aging with a higher proportion of aged people. However the unions simply will not allow it. If the duly elected government attempts to do this, the unions will simply shut the country down. Farmers likewise, will prevent any modernisation of their protected agricultural sector.

Germany seems to be a bit more sane than most, but look at their self inflicted renewable energy conundrum - finding themselves dependent on Russian oil and gas for crying out loud.

ezbee

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#3025953 23-Jan-2023 23:23

Prime Ministerial Model does have advantage that a cabinet can change them.

Though in recent times overdosing on USA echo chambers has confused some.
President with all those presidential powers is quite different from a Prime Minister.

Might make a nice street survey, ask people and see how many think parliament operates like USA.

Individual power than they have is limited.
While they can reshuffle cabinet, cabinet can reshuffle them.

gzt

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#3025958 24-Jan-2023 00:09

There's no other way to say it - you are almost totally incorrect. The Prime Minister cannot be removed by cabinet members. The Prime Minister can be effectively removed by a Motion of No Confidence in the Prime Minister supported by a majority of the Parliament. This is usually done with a motion of no confidence in the government and can be on the Prime Minister alone if parliament so desires.

I don't see how this is relevant to Prince Harry. I've missed a few pages.

Wombat1

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#3025965 24-Jan-2023 00:36

MikeAqua:

Those are highly dysfunctional countries. What about somewhere like France?

They were once highly functioning countries. now so bad that they need a thing in south Africa called affirmative action which favors a majority that already has complete political control. The fact that the political majority in South Africa requires affirmative action to protect themselves from a less than 10% minority is testament to how bad things there really are. Zimbabwe, or Rhodesia before it became a republic was once the breadbasket of Africa, now its nothing more than a basket case. France.... well have you been there lately? Parts of Paris are now slums, not really a shining example, Germany is a good example.

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