People's dress sense/standards at work

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#1644667 3-Oct-2016 12:47

Fred99:

It's worse for women in many workplaces. I'm sure that they're judged more on appearance - including dress - than men. At executive level, men can probably get away with owning a couple of suits and pairs of sensible shoes and simple "accessorising" with ties/shirts.

A woman can buy a basic work wardrobe comprising a few business suits (pant or skirt), a few tops and few pairs of shoes. A lot of professional women do just that, especially those that travel frequently for work.

I've worked in a place with a gender neutral written dress code. We had a conservative clientèle and therefore corporate image. Worded as minimum requirements that applied to all garments regardless of who the wearer was. For example: -

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thinus

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#1644673 3-Oct-2016 12:52

Rikkitic:

I have always strongly felt that dress codes are demeaning nonsense, like the idiotic obsession with stamping children into identical school uniforms. I detest this practice. I have always felt that people who worry about appearances do so because they lack the brain power to deal with more serious matters.

At the same time, I also think there are minimum standards that must be adhered to. I hate bad manners and poor taste. My dress code is clean and tidy, nothing else. What people wear says nothing about who they are, only who they are trying to pretend to be.

I can't tell you how much I detest the school uniform thing. It is almost as if we are teaching our kids to judge others based on their appearance. Personally I hate wearing suits and ties, give me comfort over having to try and appeal to someone else's sense of appropriateness and split second judgement based on appearance any day of the week. The whole obsession with appearance is to me like the obsession with celebrity's personal lives. Superficial and annoying.

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#1644681 3-Oct-2016 12:56

thinus:

I can't tell you how much I detest the school uniform thing. It is almost as if we are teaching our kids to judge others based on their appearance. Personally I hate wearing suits and ties, give me comfort over having to try and appeal to someone else's sense of appropriateness and split second judgement based on appearance any day of the week. The whole obsession with appearance is to me like the obsession with celebrity's personal lives. Superficial and annoying.

I see your point, but on the flip side, the uniform, perversely, is a way of helping kids not to obsess about their appearance. Everyone is dressed the same, so there's no crowd who are 'in' just because they have the "sense" -- and more importantly, the money -- to always be wearing The Right Thing.

On the other hand I could cheerfully throttle whoever decided that white shirts were a great choice for children's daily attire. They can stand in line with whoever invented the pleated skirt, and the men's neck tie.

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#1644691 3-Oct-2016 13:03

SaltyNZ:

I see your point, but on the flip side, the uniform, perversely, is a way of helping kids not to obsess about their appearance. Everyone is dressed the same, so there's no crowd who are 'in' just because they have the "sense" -- and more importantly, the money -- to always be wearing The Right Thing.

I have heard that argument before and there is some sense to it, but my loathing of school uniforms overrides it. Also, there have been incidents that make it more than abundantly clear that the concern of school officials is not with protecting children who can't afford the latest gear (and who said school uniforms are cheap?) but with ensuring mindless conformity.

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Fred99

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#1644702 3-Oct-2016 13:28

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

It's worse for women in many workplaces. I'm sure that they're judged more on appearance - including dress - than men. At executive level, men can probably get away with owning a couple of suits and pairs of sensible shoes and simple "accessorising" with ties/shirts.

A woman can buy a basic work wardrobe comprising a few business suits (pant or skirt), a few tops and few pairs of shoes. A lot of professional women do just that, especially those that travel frequently for work.

I'm not sure about that. Not in my SWMBO's workplace - showing some flair/style and not wearing the same clothes repeatedly is actually a pretty important part of "image". My wife is fairly observant of what women wear, and it's a topic of conversation, women routinely compliment each other and take interest in what other women are wearing. Sure - some men do too, but IMO that's the exception - not the norm.

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#1644706 3-Oct-2016 13:34

@freitasm:

... Initially wearing jeans and shirt. But in the last couple of months I decided to change that. I actually bought three suits in the last two months. And about ten shirts. And new shoes. And I polish older shoes every weekend. Not wearing ties but that's ok. People look at me and ask if I am going to a job interview. But that's fine. I am older now. I can be a parent to most of the other people in that company - even if I am not in the senior team ...

ok... mid life crisis anyone?

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Fred99

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#1644711 3-Oct-2016 13:42

nakedmolerat:

@freitasm:

... Initially wearing jeans and shirt. But in the last couple of months I decided to change that. I actually bought three suits in the last two months. And about ten shirts. And new shoes. And I polish older shoes every weekend. Not wearing ties but that's ok. People look at me and ask if I am going to a job interview. But that's fine. I am older now. I can be a parent to most of the other people in that company - even if I am not in the senior team ...

ok... mid life crisis anyone?

The whole of life - from nappies to suits and back to nappies is one big crisis really.

Not sure why the "mid" part always gets such a bad rep.

Finch

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#1644712 3-Oct-2016 13:43

i think in this day and age, everyone is just more casual about life in general.

Fred99

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#1644713 3-Oct-2016 13:46

Finch:

i think in this day and age, everyone is just more casual about life in general.

Is that why doctors are prescribing antidepressants in record quantities, or does that just mean the pills are working?

MikeAqua

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#1644718 3-Oct-2016 14:02

Fred99:

MikeAqua:

A woman can buy a basic work wardrobe comprising a few business suits (pant or skirt), a few tops and few pairs of shoes. A lot of professional women do just that, especially those that travel frequently for work.

I'm not sure about that. Not in my SWMBO's workplace - showing some flair/style and not wearing the same clothes repeatedly is actually a pretty important part of "image". My wife is fairly observant of what women wear, and it's a topic of conversation, women routinely compliment each other and take interest in what other women are wearing. Sure - some men do too, but IMO that's the exception - not the norm.

I'm sure that is the case in some workplaces and I can see it being important in some industries. You would be worried if your advertising agents al dressed in plain grey suits.

But most workplaces women can get away with simple business dress if they want to. Many do. Walk into a govt dept and it's often easier to count the women who aren't in a skirt or pant suit.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the 'interest' women take in each others' appearance. It's a female-female dynamic and I'm sure it can have a competitive edge to it.

Mike

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#1644719 3-Oct-2016 14:02

Fred99:

nakedmolerat:

@freitasm:

... Initially wearing jeans and shirt. But in the last couple of months I decided to change that. I actually bought three suits in the last two months. And about ten shirts. And new shoes. And I polish older shoes every weekend. Not wearing ties but that's ok. People look at me and ask if I am going to a job interview. But that's fine. I am older now. I can be a parent to most of the other people in that company - even if I am not in the senior team ...

ok... mid life crisis anyone?

The whole of life - from nappies to suits and back to nappies is one big crisis really.

Not sure why the "mid" part always gets such a bad rep.

Exactly, whats wrong with an hawaiian shirt, perm, and a sports car?

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MikeAqua

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#1644723 3-Oct-2016 14:05

Depends if the perm is yours or located in the passenger seat!

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#1644724 3-Oct-2016 14:07

Finch:

i think in this day and age, everyone is just more casual about life in general.

From experience casual in the work place where it was not previously the standard soon descends into tatty jeans and tee shirts or beach/pub wear. The concept of smart casual seems to fall on so many deaf ears. In one work place I managed it took three months and three warnings for me to eventually reverse my decision and say no to casual.

In another team(s) I managed I introduced smart business casual for my roving tech support team as they were often crawling under desks in cupboards, floor and ceiling cavities, the previous management required good clothes and ties etc. This I felt was silly and had safety risks. After a short time the attire was descending into beach/pub wear which was inappropriate, I decided to purchase a corporate wardrobe for the team such as Polo Shirts, Drill pants that had a discreet logo and name, this had a not too small hit on opex but the outcome was much better. I only had a small number of non conformists that were dealt with individually as performance issues.

As for ties, for me they are a ridiculous rag from the past that I would not enforce unless my management required me to enforce it. What is important here is "he who pays the piper calls the tune". If you do not agree with a set dress standard leave or put forward a business case for change.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1644726 3-Oct-2016 14:08

MikeAqua:

Depends if the perm is yours or located in the passenger seat!

And whether or not you've got the proper mustache.

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#1644727 3-Oct-2016 14:10

nakedmolerat:

@freitasm:

... Initially wearing jeans and shirt. But in the last couple of months I decided to change that. I actually bought three suits in the last two months. And about ten shirts. And new shoes. And I polish older shoes every weekend. Not wearing ties but that's ok. People look at me and ask if I am going to a job interview. But that's fine. I am older now. I can be a parent to most of the other people in that company - even if I am not in the senior team ...

ok... mid life crisis anyone?

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