Rain Water downpipe on a Cross Lease Property

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InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#95365 1-Jan-2012 13:19

Firstly, Happy New Year to all the fellow Geeks out there!

OK, so here's the scenario:

We live on the rear of a Cross-Lease property with our own driveway in Mt Wellington. Both the front property and our place are completely separate (2 driveways, 2 freestanding houses, fencing and a retaining wall between). The front house comes right up to the boundary. We have a gravel driveway to our rear property.

The neighbours house has a rain water downpipe which overhangs the edge of their garage and vents water onto our driveway. It doesn't look like there has ever been an attempt to terminate it properly. Several times a year I need to drop extra bags of gravel on our drive to replace what has been washed away.

What are my options?

Can I insist that the neighbour get this sorted out at his expense? Or will I be liable as this is Cross Lease?

Suggestions?

Thansk all

INSGDT

RunningMan

8965 posts

Uber Geek

#563478 1-Jan-2012 13:27

I can't tell you where you stand from a legal point of view, and forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but have you advised the neighbour (or their property manager if it's a rental) of the problem, and asked them if they will fix it? I don't know the layout of your property, but it may be that they don't know what's happening on the back side of their garage...

InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#563484 1-Jan-2012 13:47

RunningMan: I can't tell you where you stand from a legal point of view, and forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but have you advised the neighbour (or their property manager if it's a rental) of the problem, and asked them if they will fix it? I don't know the layout of your property, but it may be that they don't know what's happening on the back side of their garage...

Thanks for the reply RunningMan

I'm sure they are aware of it, as the offending pipe is directly visible 3metres from their kitchen window.

At this stage I'd just like to know where I stand. It would be nice to have the conversation with them knowing all the facts first.

antoniosk

2358 posts

Uber Geek

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#563513 1-Jan-2012 15:32

InspectorGadget:
RunningMan: I can't tell you where you stand from a legal point of view, and forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but have you advised the neighbour (or their property manager if it's a rental) of the problem, and asked them if they will fix it? I don't know the layout of your property, but it may be that they don't know what's happening on the back side of their garage...

Thanks for the reply RunningMan

I'm sure they are aware of it, as the offending pipe is directly visible 3metres from their kitchen window.

At this stage I'd just like to know where I stand. It would be nice to have the conversation with them knowing all the facts first.

I can't recall the laws around cross-lease, but I'd be astounded if any such instrument gave a neighbour the right to drain onto your property - they could throw cuttings from trees or the lawns for example, which is just nonsense.

Most cross-leases I've seen are fenced off, so even if the legal instrument looks old, turning up to a district court with pictures of obvious boundaries is pretty convincing.

How about you just talk to your neighbour and get them to divert it so the stormwater goes into their drains?

If they resist, you can then go down the path of seperating the leases properly (they can't refuse) for effective title etc.

________

Antoniosk

lonney

85 posts

Master Geek

#563532 1-Jan-2012 16:59

Stuff a potato up it :o)

RunningMan

8965 posts

Uber Geek

#563536 1-Jan-2012 17:04

lonney: Stuff a potato up it :o)

Now that's a creative solution, why didn't I think of that?

SepticSceptic

2195 posts

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#563541 1-Jan-2012 17:25

RunningMan:
lonney: Stuff a potato up it :o)

Now that's a creative solution, why didn't I think of that?

I would suggest lobbing a few tennis balls onto the roof - sooner or later they will find their way into the downpipe and block things up there, leading to flooding in the garage internal roof space, or damage stuff they may have stored there. Those danged kids and their tennis balls :-)

I am surprised that your boundary is so close to their garage - are you sure that the garage it is a permitted structure being that close, or that your boundary is accurate ?

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#563550 1-Jan-2012 17:41

Knock on the door and have a chat with them about it.

If it was me, I'd just ask them if they were aware of the impact on you as far as cost and annoyance.

Don't make the assumption they'll be hostile about this. They may not have even noticed that it was impacting you and been unaware it's annoying you.

If they tell you it's a rental then just ask for the details of the property manager, give them a call and ask them to have the owner put a down pipe on it and drain it away.

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InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#563618 1-Jan-2012 22:56

Thanks for the reply's.

The first time I spoke to these people it was when they had decided that washing out a pail of white water based paint (and have it drain under the fence and down our drive) was a good idea. They couldn't see the problem?!! As a result, I'm not expecting them to be too receptive.

Just to clarify, the pipe in question drains off their house roof, across their garage and onto our drive. The garage itself appears to be drained properly.

I'm inclined to do a Ninja trick one night and chuck a 90 elbow on the pipe and have it drain back onto their garage roof and be done with it.

itxtme

2102 posts

Uber Geek

#563654 2-Jan-2012 08:54

The best people to talk to in regard to this would be the council. There advice is generally correct, and its free!

Regs

4066 posts

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Snowflake

#563842 2-Jan-2012 20:30

i'm sure that a word to the council will probably get them a visit. they are pretty firm on drainage up here. should probably give the owners a bell first and ask them to fix it...

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gzt

17168 posts

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#564091 3-Jan-2012 18:56

(generally) the way it works is owners are responsible for stormwater run off from their properties.

some people are not very practical and may not have realised it is out of code (it should definitely be going into a stormwater drain) and a problem for you as well.

maybe builders just left it like that.

if you can offer them a simple solution they can say yes to that will make it easier for them.

you can probably get the council to have a chat with them about it but it is probably simpler and friendlier to talk with the owner directly.

InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#564109 3-Jan-2012 20:11

gzt: (generally) the way it works is owners are responsible for stormwater run off from their properties.

some people are not very practical and may not have realised it is out of code (it should definitely be going into a stormwater drain) and a problem for you as well.

maybe builders just left it like that.

if you can offer them a simple solution they can say yes to that will make it easier for them.

you can probably get the council to have a chat with them about it but it is probably simpler and friendlier to talk with the owner directly.

I will be approaching them directly.

What Im interested in is that if they have to do drainage work to get this sorted, will I be partially liable for costs as we are on the cross lease?

Regs

4066 posts

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Snowflake

#564164 3-Jan-2012 23:23

where does your stormwater drain to? it should either connect to public stormwater (if provided in your area) or go to a on-site soak hole.

if the stormwater system has been installed for a long time, it may not meet current standards. If that is the case, then you may end up having to install either a entire new soak hole (lets say $15K), or a stormwater pre-treatment device (lets say $5K).

the cheapest option would be to talk to the neighbour first... the council route may end up costing you both!

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Snowflake
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InspectorGadget

208 posts

Master Geek

#564184 4-Jan-2012 03:27

Regs: where does your stormwater drain to? it should either connect to public stormwater (if provided in your area) or go to a on-site soak hole.

if the stormwater system has been installed for a long time, it may not meet current standards. If that is the case, then you may end up having to install either a entire new soak hole (lets say $15K), or a stormwater pre-treatment device (lets say $5K).

the cheapest option would be to talk to the neighbour first... the council route may end up costing you both!

That's what I suspected.

My house is fine. We drain into the storm water system as it is the newer of the 2 houses on the cross lease.

I might have to order a Drainage Plan from the council website and see what is around.

RunningMan

8965 posts

Uber Geek

#564220 4-Jan-2012 09:51

InspectorGadget: I might have to order a Drainage Plan from the council website and see what is around.

Seeing as you are in Auckland, jump on the Auckland Council site - flick on the stormwater overlay and it will tell you where everything is (well, supposed to be!).