Does fibre install reuse telecom copper conduit?

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mrhaboobi

165 posts

Master Geek

#239345 12-Jul-2018 20:58

Hi all

Fibre is being laid down my street. I spoke to the contractor and asked about the best location fir them to lay their cable . I had a question which was

“When I sign up to fibre and someone comes out to install it, do they reuse the existing conduit laid by chorus or do the not”

I was told they don’t . And that the lay there own conduit or run a duct along fences etc .,

Given that I asked them to terminate the cable on the Rhs if our section as that’s the shortest distance to my internal network box. And I already laid underground conduit to go under the concrete path and terminate at the telecom ont. They agreed. Then laid the cable the next day to the other side of the section where telecom originally laid their cable.

I want to make sure I get the cable on the correct side. hoping to hear from a fibre installer :)

Thanks

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1647 posts

Uber Geek

#2055342 12-Jul-2018 21:02

Who is your fibre company? If it isn't Chorus they won't use the Chorus ducts.

mrhaboobi

165 posts

Master Geek

#2055343 12-Jul-2018 21:04

DarkShadow:
Who is your fibre company? If it isn't Chorus they won't use the Chorus ducts.

In chch.

Enable doing the street now. Red cable popping out of ground . Currently with telecom vdsl.
Does that help ?

Scott3

3982 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2055344 12-Jul-2018 21:04

My install (Chorus area) reused the existing com's duct. Note that not all houses have their phone line installed in a duct.

nickb800

2723 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2055348 12-Jul-2018 21:14

Enable can't reuse Chorus/Telecom duct, so will always lay new duct

mrhaboobi

165 posts

Master Geek

#2055350 12-Jul-2018 21:18

nickb800:
Enable can't reuse Chorus/Telecom duct, so will always lay new duct

So you’re essentially saying that if enable lay the cable on the wrong side of the property that they won’t blow the fibre down the existing green chorus conduit when I go to connect and will need to run some other conduit which probably will be the shortest path to the house which means it won’t enter the house where the telecom wall box is which is where I’ve run a micro duct back to my network box .

Sounds like I’ll be asking enable to redo what they have done. If only they actually did what we agree

sbiddle

30853 posts

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Retired Mod

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Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#2055356 12-Jul-2018 21:27

mrhaboobi:
nickb800:

Enable can't reuse Chorus/Telecom duct, so will always lay new duct

So you’re essentially saying that if enable lay the cable on the wrong side of the property that they won’t blow the fibre down the existing green chorus conduit when I go to connect and will need to run some other conduit which probably will be the shortest path to the house which means it won’t enter the house where the telecom wall box is which is where I’ve run a micro duct back to my network box .

Sounds like I’ll be asking enable to redo what they have done. If only they actually did what we agree

Correct. So you've now told them to install it in the wrong location which they've done?!

mrhaboobi

165 posts

Master Geek

#2055360 12-Jul-2018 21:31

sbiddle:
mrhaboobi:
nickb800:

Enable can't reuse Chorus/Telecom duct, so will always lay new duct

So you’re essentially saying that if enable lay the cable on the wrong side of the property that they won’t blow the fibre down the existing green chorus conduit when I go to connect and will need to run some other conduit which probably will be the shortest path to the house which means it won’t enter the house where the telecom wall box is which is where I’ve run a micro duct back to my network box .

Sounds like I’ll be asking enable to redo what they have done. If only they actually did what we agree

Correct. So you've now told them to install it in the wrong location which they've done?!

No. Enable installed it in the location they originally identified which after conversation with the onsite foreman I told to shift it to the correct location . They agreed. I left fir work and came back to find it laid in the original location which is wrong and means they will do a crappy instal. Bloody annoying I’ll be telling the to move it in the morning .

How do you screw that up. Left hand right hand. No conversation

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Scott3

3982 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2055392 12-Jul-2018 21:58

nickb800:

Enable can't reuse Chorus/Telecom duct, so will always lay new duct

Man, that's super wasteful. A perfectly good com's duct exists (likely big enough to fit both copper & fiber in it if needed), but must be duplicated at likely substantial expense, despite the fact that the original duct will become disused when the copper network is shut down in a decade or two....

mrhaboobi

165 posts

Master Geek

#2055393 12-Jul-2018 22:00

Scott3:
nickb800:

Enable can't reuse Chorus/Telecom duct, so will always lay new duct

Man, that's super wasteful. A perfectly good com's duct exists (likely big enough to fit both copper & fiber in it if needed), but must be duplicated at likely substantial expense, despite the fact that the original duct will become disused when the copper network is shut down in a decade or two....

It’s crazy

ResponseMediaNZ

518 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#2055399 12-Jul-2018 22:10

No in CHC Chorus and Enable to 2 different companies....

If i was a rival company i would not want my competitor using something i paid for being used.

If we take your theory why didnt Satern/Telstra/Voda use the same comms duct for the HFC network?

mattwnz

20181 posts

Uber Geek

#2055413 12-Jul-2018 22:49

ResponseMediaNZ:

No in CHC Chorus and Enable to 2 different companies....

If i was a rival company i would not want my competitor using something i paid for being used.

If we take your theory why didnt Satern/Telstra/Voda use the same comms duct for the HFC network?

But aren't they reusing old telecom piping used by old copper installs? That was essentially installed by a different company too. Our fibre came in through old telecom pipes. Although next door they had an old unused Telstra pipe which I believe they refused to install into. Common sense needs to be followed , because at the end of the day we are all paying for this wasted work to install duplicate pipes. ALso once the pipe enters your prorerty doesn't the house owner own the pipe, minus the fibre? I know on new builds we do, because we have to pay to by the pipe and get it installed before chorus comes in to blow the fibre into the pipe,

nickb800

2723 posts

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#2055487 13-Jul-2018 07:35

mattwnz:

ResponseMediaNZ:

No in CHC Chorus and Enable to 2 different companies....

If i was a rival company i would not want my competitor using something i paid for being used.

If we take your theory why didnt Satern/Telstra/Voda use the same comms duct for the HFC network?

But aren't they reusing old telecom piping used by old copper installs? That was essentially installed by a different company too. Our fibre came in through old telecom pipes. Although next door they had an old unused Telstra pipe which I believe they refused to install into. Common sense needs to be followed , because at the end of the day we are all paying for this wasted work to install duplicate pipes. ALso once the pipe enters your prorerty doesn't the house owner own the pipe, minus the fibre? I know on new builds we do, because we have to pay to by the pipe and get it installed before chorus comes in to blow the fibre into the pipe,

I think technically you pay for the duct (in a new build) and then vest it with Chorus

What was Telecom duct is now Chorus duct, and Enable is a different company. Even if they Enable reach a commercial arrangement to take over Chorus duct, then there would be a logistical challenge of having a Chorus technician disconnect the line from the Chorus network, so that Enable can use the old lead-in as a draw wire. And then you would have to do the external and internal installation in the one day, otherwise the customer could go several days without phone/internet

Wheelbarrow01

1726 posts

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Chorus

#2055503 13-Jul-2018 08:30

My understanding is that Enable lay their network in such a way that they end up with a drop off point for two properties above the ground at every second property boundary as per the primitive drawing below:

This configuration would have been carefully thought out by the network planners to take many things into account, such as the number of dwellings on each section (included subdivided sections).

What you asked the boys on the ground to do is go against the plan they had been given, and do something like this below, which would have had the effect of screwing with the original network design:

As you can see, changing the position of one drop off point messes with the entire design for the street, and has the effect of making it very difficult for adjacent properties to get connected.

The workmen you spoke to should never have said it was possible to change the configuration on the street, because it's certainly not that easy. I rather suspect they just agreed with you to avoid confrontation, because at the end of the day, they are paid only to lay the network as per the plan in the quickest possible time. They don't have the authority to make changes to the plan at all. The fibre routing on the road is pre-defined and cannot be changed unless they down tools and send the entire street back to the network planners for a redesign - which costs huge amounts of time and money.

In regard to Enable using pre-existing Chorus-owned duct, this will never happen. There is no commercial agreement between Chorus and Enable for this, and is not likely to be in future. For newer houses where the homeowner or developer laid their own duct, I suspect that if Chorus have already used that duct for copper, it then becomes off limits for Enable to repurpose that duct for their own use in future.

So while you believe that Enable have laid the network "down the wrong side of the property", they have in fact laid it out in the most logical configuration for them, which results in a speedy rollout balanced with an even network distribution on the street.

If and when you place an order for fibre with your RSP, Enable will send a scoper out to discuss installation options, and they will do their best to take your preferences into account. They may be able to run your fibre lead-in cable across the inside of your front boundary to get it to the side of your house that you want it on, but there are several methods they can use to achieve this, so I wouldn't be too concerned about what's happened here.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

mrhaboobi

165 posts

Master Geek

#2055508 13-Jul-2018 08:35

Wheelbarrow01:

My understanding is that Enable lay their network in such a way that they end up with a drop off point for two properties above the ground at every second property boundary as per the primitive drawing below:

This configuration would have been carefully thought out by the network planners to take many things into account, such as the number of dwellings on each section (included subdivided sections).

What you asked the boys on the ground to do is go against the plan they had been given, and do something like this below, which would have had the effect of screwing with the original network design:

As you can see, changing the position of one drop off point messes with the entire design for the street, and has the effect of making it very difficult for adjacent properties to get connected.

The workmen you spoke to should never have said it was possible to change the configuration on the street, because it's certainly not that easy. I rather suspect they just agreed with you to avoid confrontation, because at the end of the day, they are paid only to lay the network as per the plan in the quickest possible time. They don't have the authority to make changes to the plan at all. The fibre routing on the road is pre-defined and cannot be changed unless they down tools and send the entire street back to the network planners for a redesign - which costs huge amounts of time and money.

In regard to Enable using pre-existing Chorus-owned duct, this will never happen. There is no commercial agreement between Chorus and Enable for this, and is not likely to be in future. For newer houses where the homeowner or developer laid their own duct, I suspect that if Chorus have already used that duct for copper, it then becomes off limits for Enable to repurpose that duct for their own use in future.

So while you believe that Enable have laid the network "down the wrong side of the property", they have in fact laid it out in the most logical configuration for them, which results in a speedy rollout balanced with an even network distribution on the street.

If and when you place an order for fibre with your RSP, Enable will send a scoper out to discuss installation options, and they will do their best to take your preferences into account. They may be able to run your fibre lead-in cable across the inside of your front boundary to get it to the side of your house that you want it on, but there are several methods they can use to achieve this, so I wouldn't be too concerned about what's happened here.

Whilst that all makes sense and sounds good. The one part that your are not aware of is they already trenched BOTH sides of my property. so actually this wouldnt have been an issue,

mugs2000

66 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2055544 13-Jul-2018 08:53

Just a little diversion here; About 20 years ago in Dunedin, Telecom bought out all the redundant gas pipes to prevent the opposition from using them to run cable.

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