reality check from overseas

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mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#65842 7-Aug-2010 12:55

i just returned from brief trip to finland.

while there i naturally needed a broadband, and went for prepaid mobile deal.

and of course i got reminded how SICK the pricing in nz still is even for wired broadband. so to give others an idea how things should and could work here i'll tell you about it.

prepaid 3G+ connection including a huawei dongle cost me 39 euro including an unlimited data for a month.

yes, you read it right, NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE regardless of the amount i downloaded with mobile broadband.

(it also included 6 euro of credit should i have chosen to make calls.)

same thing as a monthly plan would've cost me 31 euro. 4Mbps theoretical max, UNLIMITED FLAT RATE for data each and every month.

and before you say it'd be slow or handicapped, i tested it against the speedtest in auckland while on moving train clocking 1Mbps download and 200kbps upload. that's faster than my Telstra Cable on evening times 19000 kilometers away!

typically i got about as much as i could have with the negotiated 3.6Mbps connection. and during the ~3 hour train trip i only got cut off about 5 times and reconnect always restored it. while not moving i never got cut offs; not even when i was in my dad's summer cottage in the countryside.

i have a dream one day i could get something like that here. it wont happen unless the consumers act.

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#364905 8-Aug-2010 03:19

With 2degrees launching their broadband zones, and Pacific Fibre announcing they and another company are building an international cable to the USA, making 3 competitors for international bandwidth, its going to be getting closer.

Ray Taylor

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Cybergangster

54 posts

Master Geek

#366007 10-Aug-2010 20:38

We won't see a change here anytime soon. I've heard too many kiwi's just accepting that this is the status quo. Until we see some real competition, Telecom can carry on fleecing the general populace and wholesale ISPs to their hearts content.

Look at the Big Time debacle. How many users just shrugged their shoulders and moved to the Pro plan? How many moved to another wholesale ISP who are still paying Telecom to lease the copper? Apathy rules in Aotearoa.

Still, it's nice to dream of proper internet one day...

turnin

509 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#366018 10-Aug-2010 21:08

seriously, what about a nationwide wireless network, surely this has been considered, I see there are smaller wireless operators in the BOP. Anyone keen to go thousandths in a repeater ?

richms

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#366023 10-Aug-2010 21:19

Wireless cant deliver what people want in a fixed broadband connection.

Any ISP using ISM band gear to deliver a paid service is nothing but a joke IMO, and the license process for proper freq's is a mess of red tape from my brief enquiries about it.

Richard rich.ms

traderstu

332 posts

Ultimate Geek

#366051 10-Aug-2010 22:08

hmm, but I guess all things are relative. When you live 15km from the city boundary as i do, the telephone packs it in every time it rains and you can't even get reception on the Vodafone network, 5.6Mb/s down, 0.24Mb/s up on wireless seems pretty good. Actually, the 2 best ISPs in Tga (according to speedtest.net) are wireless.

raytaylor

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#366053 10-Aug-2010 22:13

I service a small rural community with broadband who are on a PCM cabinet.
If i paid the thousands to invest in a cabinet and DSLAM, and fibre backhaul to Napier, I could deliver 10mbits each to the users.

Because I use microwave radio, the transmitter is limited to 20mbits shared between all the users. Although they are each limited to 1mbit, its far better to use dsl or fibre than radio because radio needs to be shared, and its expensive to lease or buy the channels off of RSM.

Microwave wireless can be fast - but it has limitations when there are many users in a small area, and very dependant on line of sight. So even though the fastest isp's may be wireless, there could be so many more users in the same area using DSL and more bandwidth to share around.

Ray Taylor

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graemeh

2078 posts

Uber Geek

#366174 11-Aug-2010 12:02

mindoka: i have a dream one day i could get something like that here. it wont happen unless the consumers act.

So if the big bad Telcos are hopelessly overcharging us how come we don't have a queue of companies lined up wanting to build their own networks?

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Cybergangster

54 posts

Master Geek

#366180 11-Aug-2010 12:13

duh - probably the same reason you or I aren't rolling out our own infrastructure. Because we don't have the moola! Any new start-up is going to need some serious capital to ensure they can build a big enough network to compete with Telecom's monopoly.

old3eyes

9120 posts

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#366187 11-Aug-2010 12:34

Cybergangster: duh - probably the same reason you or I aren't rolling out our own infrastructure. Because we don't have the moola! Any new start-up is going to need some serious capital to ensure they can build a big enough network to compete with Telecom's monopoly.

One company did. It was called Saturn but we saw how that expanded after it was bought by Telsra didn't we..

Regards,

Old3eyes

MikeyPI

450 posts

Ultimate Geek

#366200 11-Aug-2010 12:52

How about your reality check?

Finland -

pop - 5.4 million

part of continental Europe

1st in the world in prosperity rating

13th in the world for GDP per capita

bordered by Sweden (pop - 9.3 Million), Norway (pop - 4.8million), & Russia (pop - 141 million)

So until we are part of a continental land mass, and have an extended market of 165 million people, I think we are doing alright.

richms

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#366285 11-Aug-2010 15:43

graemeh:
mindoka: i have a dream one day i could get something like that here. it wont happen unless the consumers act.

So if the big bad Telcos are hopelessly overcharging us how come we don't have a queue of companies lined up wanting to build their own networks?

Government created uncertainty by messing with one telcos property rights, tendering to subsidize other companies to build their networks and other general non free market carryon.

Richard rich.ms

mindoka

62 posts

Master Geek

#367395 13-Aug-2010 22:36

MikeyPI: How about your reality check?

Finland -

pop - 5.4 million

part of continental Europe
1st in the world in prosperity rating
13th in the world for GDP per capita
bordered by Sweden (pop - 9.3 Million), Norway (pop - 4.8million), & Russia (pop - 141 million)
So until we are part of a continental land mass, and have an extended market of 165 million people, I think we are doing alright.

now that you mention it. finland and nz are after one and another in the global population density list (around 110th position or so) meaning roughly the slightly larger size of the country (FI) compensates the 1 mil more people living there. having most people in nz living in auckland (and in couple of other cities not really scattered all around as people in FI) also should work in favor of nz. it's NOT _that_ expensive to build good cell coverage in nz.

yet, finland consists 3 different physical 3G networks; two of which are both larger than what TNZ has. all three seem already be building separate LTE networks as well.

your comment about european land mass and people close by doesnt really make a difference; none of them travel to finland for mobile calls.

while FI might have high GDP per capita, everyone and -thing there is taxed to all hell. most things there cost roughly the same numbers in euro than same thing costs here in nz$ (meaning, costs double!), yet median earning there is not too far from nz, after taxes it's pretty much the _same_. so no, people in FI are not rich or wealthy. among the internet and mobile services only other thing better than NZ in FI are the houses which are actually build for humans to live in.

so, really, the problem in nz are the consumers. they just love to BEND OVER for the corporations.

Predated

177 posts

Master Geek

#367409 13-Aug-2010 23:33

How much was car insurance over there?

I was shocked at how much it costs to insure a car in England.

I'll happily pay more for mobile calls than the english as long as I don't have to pay the high car insurance rates they have. As a mobile phone user and a car owner I'm better off in NZ.

richms

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#367416 14-Aug-2010 00:02

look at what you are paying here in "insurance" in the form of the prick of an ACC levy etc and the english insurance doesnt look that bad to be honest.

Richard rich.ms

vinnieg

2260 posts

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#367417 14-Aug-2010 00:10

mindoka:
MikeyPI: How about your reality check?

Finland -

pop - 5.4 million

part of continental Europe
1st in the world in prosperity rating
13th in the world for GDP per capita
bordered by Sweden (pop - 9.3 Million), Norway (pop - 4.8million), & Russia (pop - 141 million)
So until we are part of a continental land mass, and have an extended market of 165 million people, I think we are doing alright.

now that you mention it. finland and nz are after one and another in the global population density list (around 110th position or so) meaning roughly the slightly larger size of the country (FI) compensates the 1 mil more people living there. having most people in nz living in auckland (and in couple of other cities not really scattered all around as people in FI) also should work in favor of nz. it's NOT _that_ expensive to build good cell coverage in nz.

yet, finland consists 3 different physical 3G networks; two of which are both larger than what TNZ has. all three seem already be building separate LTE networks as well.

your comment about european land mass and people close by doesnt really make a difference; none of them travel to finland for mobile calls.

while FI might have high GDP per capita, everyone and -thing there is taxed to all hell. most things there cost roughly the same numbers in euro than same thing costs here in nz$ (meaning, costs double!), yet median earning there is not too far from nz, after taxes it's pretty much the _same_. so no, people in FI are not rich or wealthy. among the internet and mobile services only other thing better than NZ in FI are the houses which are actually build for humans to live in.

so, really, the problem in nz are the consumers. they just love to BEND OVER for the corporations.

i think what he's trying to say is somethign along the lines of:
they are closer to what they want, if NZ wants to get international broadband access, we need to lay a 32000km cable(16000 x2 to loop it). If Finland wants an international cable to the rest of Europe, they could just lay one through Denmark with about 100km to do a total loop....compared to the cost of Submarining cables that NZ needs. That's why we are paying so much for it. If we were only 100km to the US then we could've laid 320x cables across the Pacific and probably be paying a smaller amount than most other countries. Fortunately(or unfortunately if you care about internet speed over privacy) for us, we aren't that close!

Again for the 3 different physical 3G networks, you'd expect that! Since they are producers of Nokia phones, plus again location is a factor: Alcatel - France, Ericsson - Sweden, Nokia - Finland...to get that in NZ it all needs to be shipped over

Topography, fault lines and volcanic activity make it harder too:
Finland - mostly low, flat to rolling plains interspersed with lakes and low hills
New Zealand - predominately mountainous with some large coastal plain

Seismology
Finland - almost non existant over the past 16 years
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/finland/seismicity.php
New Zealand - Thousands of earthquakes over the past 16 years
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/new_zealand/seismicity.php

I just think you are really comparing bananas to oranges here!
Denmark, Finland and Norway had the 2nd 1G network, well before NZ. Nokia is still also the largest cellphone maker in the world and will be for the next year at least. So you'd expect Nokia and it's subsidiaries over in Finland to have a solid communications base.

Now I have to go watch the Dudesons, JARPPI!!!

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

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