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5 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 228831 24-Jan-2018 17:20
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Hello -

 

Within the last few weeks I've read an article online - somewhere - about a man who recently took Sony to either the Disputes Tribunal or Small Claims Court. He was disputing Sony's request for a $285 fee to repair/replace his faulty 3yo PlayStation. He argued that a gaming console should have a reasonable life of longer than 3 years. The tribunal/court agreed with him and ordered Sony to refund him the original purchase price.

 

I'm nearing a similar situation with Sony over my 3y3w old PS4, which has been doing the random ejecting, beeping, rebooting while playing stuff. I've tried various fixes - removing the cover and tightening the eject screw, raising it off the ground so the rubber foot isn't potentially pressing on the eject button, power cycling etc. It will even gt nuts beeping and trying to eject CDs while it is powered off (proper off, not power save) and while there is no CD in the tray. This has been going on for 6mo and it only occured to me after reading that article that I may have a shot at a CGA claim.

 

I've spoken with Sony today and they offered a replacement for $285 or I could write to them stating why I feel it falls under a CGA claim. I would really like to find the article so I can show a recent court decision that states a gaming console has a reasonable life of more than 3 years. I don't want to start a protracted back and forth with them, so would like to be able to provide all the information in the initial letter.

 

Problem is, I cannot find that article anywhere online, and I'm usually quite handy with a search engine. And before you say it, yes I've consulted my browser history. It would seem that Opera, which I use on my tablet, on which I read the article, only keeps 3 days worth of history. Not helpful to my current situation.

 

Tomorrow I'll be contacting Consumer to see if they have any record of it or any other suggestions, but though I'd ask here as well as people may have taken note of such a relevant decision.

 

Thanks in advance.


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  Reply # 1946202 24-Jan-2018 17:35
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You might have shot yourself in the foot with this "removing the cover and tightening the eject screw, raising it off the ground so the rubber foot isn't potentially pressing on the eject button".  I'm no lawyer but opening the device sony could come back with that the issue is your fault for doing it.


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  Reply # 1946204 24-Jan-2018 17:42
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Old case but does state 5 years for a computer and 8+dvd player, this was with a ps3 from https://www.gpforums.co.nz/threads/434915-YLOD-and-CGA

 

*************************************

 

I've gone though this. With Sony. And Harvey Norman's. And Fixtronics. I can tell you if you have a 60GB backwards compatible model, 80% chance the console you have is the same one you originally sent - fixed and not replaced with a refurb. They just don't have the stocks to replaces those, haven't for years now. If when it was originally repaired it took weeks rather than days to be returned, then it's very likely to be the case. In any situation, you can treat the replaced console as expectly new, so the clock starts again on it when it comes back to you as far as reasonable use goes. If you ever go through official channels (ie. Disputes Tribunal, etc.) you need to note the consoles repair dates however. 

The problem with calling Sony on that number is it goes through to Australia. This makes getting Sony to deal with it exceptionally more difficult because they act like even more ignorant muppets than usual because obviously the CGA only exists in NZ, and so they will make your life hell.

My pointers for calling:

Note the day and time you call. 

Once you're on the line with them, firstly confirm the name person you're talking to - this is important for when you don't get a call back. Trust me, you'll end up going around in circles for a while on your position - this is standard. Eventually they will offer to escalate it up even if you ask, their usual practice is to say they'll call back within 48 hours. Sony also seem reluctant to give out call reference numbers for some unknown reason (but it might be due to the fact it's a general support line and not just a technical issues one), but do ask. 

I never got a call back. After the time I just rang them again, stated the time I'd called, who I'd talked to, and that you'd now like an immediate call back within an hour due to the fact you've waited if they still can't put someone on the line there and then. 

If you don't get a call back within an hour, e-mail the support@playstation e-mail. Outline the issue, the calls you've made, and the non-contact etc. Basically everything Android mentioned. 

Alternatively, via Harvey Normans - Mention that a PS3 case has previously been taken to the Disputes Tribunal (Jason Stevens v Sony Computer Entertainment New Zealand Ltd and Electronics Boutique Australia Pty Ltd, CIV-2009-094-000642 - 25th May, 2009) where Jason won. 

In this case Jason had Sony repair the console, which he paid for, then took them to the disputes tribunal to get a refund of his money. The Tribunal agreed with a Consumer article he cited (http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/a...ife-expectancy) - you have to pay to get a copy sadly - which stated computers and simular equipment should last 5 years. Sony tried to defend stating the PlayStation is not a computer and that it had a shorter life span. I guess it was a hard sell when your company name has Computer Entertainment in it. People posted this up in a YLOD thread quite some time back, but it's still very helpful. 

http://we-fearless-ones.blogspot.com...al-ruling.html

Because I got sick of Sony dragging their feet (and they will), I went to HN's. When I did this, along with some hard pressure, the guy got the manager and pushed through on contacting Fixtronics in Auckland to just repair it and one of the two would pay the cost. Eventually Fixtronics agreed (although under the standard of wiping the hard drive, which I didn't want again - so I made other arrangements in the end). Again it takes a lot of effort for this, so be calm, cool, and collected but firm and make sure you can take as much hard evidence to support your claim.

Unlike AndroidGrim, I don't feel any sympathy for retail stores on taking a burden for this. While they generally sell things like PS3's and other gaming consoles at a loss when originally sold, many items in retail stores are marked up to the millionth degree. Especially accessories, replacement equipment, and larger scale low cost items like televisions, computers, etc. Just like anything, it's a gamble people take to buy it and hope it lasts, it's also a gamble that they won't have someone come back and get the CGA to fix it.


 
 
 
 


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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1946207 24-Jan-2018 17:52
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tripp:

 

You might have shot yourself in the foot with this "removing the cover and tightening the eject screw, raising it off the ground so the rubber foot isn't potentially pressing on the eject button".  I'm no lawyer but opening the device sony could come back with that the issue is your fault for doing it.

 

 

Nah - I was told by them to do it (had already done it, but he didn't know that). Apparently that's a user serviceble item. The cover just pops off, it isn't screwed on and nor do you break the Sony seal tape. It is also their recommendation to check the rubber foot positioning, I just chose to slide two thin pieces of wood under the unit to raise it 1cm off the ground to hopefully remove that entirely as a problem. No way that's going to void anything!

 

And thanks for the links, that's certainly better than nothing. It's just damn annoying I can't find this recent one, given the product in question was the same model and age of mine, it would be great to include it, I suspect that would seal it up very quickly.

 

ETA: the screw tightening thing is even listed on Sony support for disc eject issues.

 

https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/get-help/help-library/system---hardware/disc-drive---ports/ps4--disc-ejecting-itself/


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  Reply # 1946217 24-Jan-2018 18:18
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Mine started doing the random ejecting and neither Mighty Ape nor Sony wanted to talk to me. At that point the machine was about 2.5 years old so I took the cover off (which required a special $8 screwdriver from Trade Me) and put a bit of tape on the eject contact so that it lost the electrical connection. It's been fine ever since.

 

But you can give the CGA a go if you prefer!




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1946223 24-Jan-2018 18:32
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Behodar:

 

Mine started doing the random ejecting and neither Mighty Ape nor Sony wanted to talk to me. At that point the machine was about 2.5 years old so I took the cover off (which required a special $8 screwdriver from Trade Me) and put a bit of tape on the eject contact so that it lost the electrical connection. It's been fine ever since.

 

But you can give the CGA a go if you prefer!

 

 

Could you give me a little more info on where to find the eject contact? If that is all the problem is, I'd be happy to do just that. I don't have a problem with the unit otherwise, just want it to stop ejecting discs while playing and acting like it is posessed in the middle of the night beeping like a crazy thing. This is making it nearly unusable and I resent having to pay $285 for what is clearly a common fault with the hardware.

 

Does your fix stop the eject button from working altogether?


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  Reply # 1946224 24-Jan-2018 18:39
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IANAL, but IMO you are better to go to the retailer direct to sort this out rather than with the manufacturer. The retailer can't tell you to go to the manufacturer, they have to sort it out for you. IMO 3 years isn't that long, but it does depend on how much use it has had and the price paid etc. 
Sonys support these days all seems to be overseas from my experience and I didn't find it to be a good experience when I had to get something repaired, so I wouldn't bother with that, the retailer is the best place to go IMO to resolve it.




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1946227 24-Jan-2018 18:45
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mattwnz:

 

IANAL, but IMO you are better to go to the retailer direct to sort this out rather than with the manufacturer. The retailer can't tell you to go to the manufacturer, they have to sort it out for you. IMO 3 years isn't that long, but it does depend on how much use it has had and the price paid etc. 
Sonys support these days all seems to be overseas from my experience and I didn't find it to be a good experience when I had to get something repaired, so I wouldn't bother with that, the retailer is the best place to go IMO to resolve it.

 

 

Thanks, I will give that a try before launching on anything major. I purchased it full price from Noel Leeming in early December 2014. It's not had heavy use - my sons mostly. They weren't super interested for a long time (surprise to me) and only in the last couple of months have been using it more regularly. Prior to that it could have gone a couple of months at a time without being turned on. There's no way to objectively guage use though, is there?


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  Reply # 1946228 24-Jan-2018 18:53
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scrappy100:

 

mattwnz:

 

IANAL, but IMO you are better to go to the retailer direct to sort this out rather than with the manufacturer. The retailer can't tell you to go to the manufacturer, they have to sort it out for you. IMO 3 years isn't that long, but it does depend on how much use it has had and the price paid etc. 
Sonys support these days all seems to be overseas from my experience and I didn't find it to be a good experience when I had to get something repaired, so I wouldn't bother with that, the retailer is the best place to go IMO to resolve it.

 

 

Thanks, I will give that a try before launching on anything major. I purchased it full price from Noel Leeming in early December 2014. It's not had heavy use - my sons mostly. They weren't super interested for a long time (surprise to me) and only in the last couple of months have been using it more regularly. Prior to that it could have gone a couple of months at a time without being turned on. There's no way to objectively guage use though, is there?

 

 

 

 

NLs are generally pretty good I have found at managing out of warranty claims. I would have thought that a device like that would log hours in use somewhere, maybe google will shed more light.. 


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  Reply # 1946233 24-Jan-2018 19:00
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scrappy100: Could you give me a little more info on where to find the eject contact?

 

It's really obvious once it's open; the back of the eject button has a little "pole" that touches it.

 

scrappy100: Does your fix stop the eject button from working altogether?

 

Yes. I now need to eject from the controller (Options -> Remove Disc).


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  Reply # 1974064 13-Mar-2018 15:49
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I did this with Jb HI FI and my Ps3 a few years ago. My ps3 was about 3 years old and I argued the CGA with them and citing a few cases from the internet. The manager verbally abused me and said they would rather take me to court. 20 minutes later he called back and told me to come get a replacement. Not sure what happened but I think he found out he was in the wrong after he hung up. 




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1974083 13-Mar-2018 16:09
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GeWizard:

 

I did this with Jb HI FI and my Ps3 a few years ago. My ps3 was about 3 years old and I argued the CGA with them and citing a few cases from the internet. The manager verbally abused me and said they would rather take me to court. 20 minutes later he called back and told me to come get a replacement. Not sure what happened but I think he found out he was in the wrong after he hung up. 

 

 

What a tool.

 

What I learned from the very helpful people at Consumer is that a retailer can be fined up to $600,000 for directing a customer to the manufacturer for a CGA claim. The customer can opt to deal with the mfr, but if you choose to approach the retailer, they are required to follow the case through to a conclusion.

 

The Consumer advisor recommended I take it back into NL and request a repair, and if they pushed back, to quote a few bits of CGA. I did and they pushed back, so I did and left it with them. I got a call the next day to say they'd spoken with their repair agent, and they couldn't help me and I needed to deal directly with Sony. This was when I learned they they should not be shovelling me off to Sony. The Consumer lady wrote to NL head office alerting them to their store manager's transgressions. Within a couple of days I received a call from NL customer service "escalation team" saying "good news, your PS4 has been fixed!". Uh ok. Apparently they looked online and found the same fix that I'd already tried - tightening the disc sject screw. But in a gesture of good faith, I said ok, and brought it home to see if the problem repeated itself. The NL person was good enough to confirm in our conversation that this was a known problem with early PS4s. Problem is now that my sons are playing Fortnite, which doesn't require a disc, and the problem only crops up after a disc has been running for a while! 

 

What I thought was interesting was that my local, very small rural branch, NL store is apparently well known to Consumer because the manager frequently breaches the CGA, and Consumer keeps having to write letters to NL head office about him. She also said that for their purposes, they consider a useful life of a games console to be approximately 5 years.

 

And in a completely different experience, I've got a 3.5yo Mitsubishi fridge. The finish on the doors had started to deteriorate and was beginning to rust in places, even though there was no damage to the doors. I called the retailer (a branch of 100% Appliances) and they couldn't have been more helpful. Within 6 hours I had a rep from Mitsubishi calling me asking for photos and information, and within 7 days I'd received a set of replacement doors and a drawer front (it is a multi-drawer style fridge). Goes to show the process doesn't have to be difficult.. only if retailers and mfs want it to be.


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  Reply # 1974124 13-Mar-2018 16:48
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tripp: In any situation, you can treat the replaced console as expectly new, so the clock starts again on it when it comes back to you as far as reasonable use goes. 

 

 

My understanding is the clock starts the day you bought the product and never resets even for a repair or replacement. It is irrelevant how many times it was repaired during that period (although if it were a problematic product one would request a refund ). 

 

If a reasonable lifespan is 10 years and you get 10 years use since purchase date, great.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1974216 13-Mar-2018 20:47
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scrappy100:

 

GeWizard:

 

I did this with Jb HI FI and my Ps3 a few years ago. My ps3 was about 3 years old and I argued the CGA with them and citing a few cases from the internet. The manager verbally abused me and said they would rather take me to court. 20 minutes later he called back and told me to come get a replacement. Not sure what happened but I think he found out he was in the wrong after he hung up. 

 

 

What a tool.

 

What I learned from the very helpful people at Consumer is that a retailer can be fined up to $600,000 for directing a customer to the manufacturer for a CGA claim. The customer can opt to deal with the mfr, but if you choose to approach the retailer, they are required to follow the case through to a conclusion.

 

The Consumer advisor recommended I take it back into NL and request a repair, and if they pushed back, to quote a few bits of CGA. I did and they pushed back, so I did and left it with them. I got a call the next day to say they'd spoken with their repair agent, and they couldn't help me and I needed to deal directly with Sony. This was when I learned they they should not be shovelling me off to Sony. The Consumer lady wrote to NL head office alerting them to their store manager's transgressions. Within a couple of days I received a call from NL customer service "escalation team" saying "good news, your PS4 has been fixed!". Uh ok. Apparently they looked online and found the same fix that I'd already tried - tightening the disc sject screw. But in a gesture of good faith, I said ok, and brought it home to see if the problem repeated itself. The NL person was good enough to confirm in our conversation that this was a known problem with early PS4s. Problem is now that my sons are playing Fortnite, which doesn't require a disc, and the problem only crops up after a disc has been running for a while! 

 

What I thought was interesting was that my local, very small rural branch, NL store is apparently well known to Consumer because the manager frequently breaches the CGA, and Consumer keeps having to write letters to NL head office about him. She also said that for their purposes, they consider a useful life of a games console to be approximately 5 years.

 

And in a completely different experience, I've got a 3.5yo Mitsubishi fridge. The finish on the doors had started to deteriorate and was beginning to rust in places, even though there was no damage to the doors. I called the retailer (a branch of 100% Appliances) and they couldn't have been more helpful. Within 6 hours I had a rep from Mitsubishi calling me asking for photos and information, and within 7 days I'd received a set of replacement doors and a drawer front (it is a multi-drawer style fridge). Goes to show the process doesn't have to be difficult.. only if retailers and mfs want it to be.

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah i forgot to mention i had the same issue with the disc spitting out with my PS4. It was repaired by Mighty Ape. It was over a year old so no warranty. 

 

 

 

Also, that JB Hi Fi manager literally said to me in our discussion "the CGA is just a rant for consumers to try and get their way". I told him i'd see him in court and was shaking afterwards. This was when I was a teenager and had extreme anxiety issues. I only faced my fear as I was a real keen gamer back then and also poor lol. 


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  Reply # 1974309 13-Mar-2018 22:52
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I had the same issue with my launch PS4 which at about the same time as yours (3y2w) decided to ejecto disco itself, Sony was very easy to deal with, explained the problem and mentioned it seems to be a very common issue, they gave me a case number to take back to the retailer for a straight swap for a brand new one.

Sucks to hear Sony is being less forthcoming in this instance, try your luck with the retailer instead, I agree, the lifespan of a gaming console should be longer then 3 years.

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