Possible setup with two broadband services?

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D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#212738 10-Apr-2017 13:42

Currently with BigPipe, only able to get ADSL at my address and the speeds aren't great (max of approx. 12mbit down, 2mbit up).

I tried out Skinny Broadband over 4G which was much better (approx. 40mbit up and down), but the 100GB cap is insufficient.

I have ethernet cabling run throughout my house, and current setup is as follows:

Draytek Vigor 120 into Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP. Off this is a Unifi UAP-AC, and a couple of hard-wired devices (home server, dlink switch which a couple of gaming consoles are connected to).

What I am considering, is re-joining with Skinny, configuring a second WAN interface on my Edgerouter and running the Skinny modem into that. I understand this requires double-NAT'ing, but don't know exactly what configuring this entails.

I would ideally then have DHCP set up to use the existing BigPipe connection, or I can manually configure to use the Skinny connection on certain devices, but have all connections able to communicate within the LAN, and all WiFi devices using the Unifi AP.

Is this possible (with my current hardware)?

richms

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#1760225 10-Apr-2017 14:08

You can just plug the skinny router into your lan, give it an IP in the same range and disable its DHCP, then manually configure the gateway on devices that should use the skinny connection.

Disable ipv6 on everything since that isnt that easy.

Richard rich.ms

tangerz

625 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1760232 10-Apr-2017 14:14

Yep! Should be easily do-able with your current gear. I run a similar setup with just the Skinny 4G modem and a Draytek ADSL modem, (Skinny one acts as DHCP sever)

There should be a wizard for setting up a Dual-WAN in the Edgerouter GUI. Setup is basically as you suggested. Wouldn't worry about double-NAT. The Skinny connection is CGNAT anyway so not really useful for WAN initiated LAN access anyway (VoIP, port forwarding etc)

Coil

6614 posts

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#1760234 10-Apr-2017 14:19

Very complicated situation.

Keep your bigpipe ADSL you wont get anything better than that.
The Skinny 4G broadband sounds cool but there is no way you can practically load balance the two services, I load balanced two VDSL lines, one 70mb and the other 40mb.

All i can say is that it lasted a few days before i ripped it out, My hair was next.. Gaming is impossible due to your IP changing or balancing across the connections, then losing connection. I used a PF Sense bitti bob on a linux box thingi. Dont go down that track.

@Hio77 recall when i torrented on that line? 100mb/s over vdsl :)

Works for torrenting, Not much else. (Maybe i was a newb and didn't do it right)

D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1760236 10-Apr-2017 14:22

TimA:

Very complicated situation.

Keep your bigpipe ADSL you wont get anything better than that.
The Skinny 4G broadband sounds cool but there is no way you can practically load balance the two services, I load balanced two VDSL lines, one 70mb and the other 40mb.

All i can say is that it lasted a few days before i ripped it out, My hair was next.. Gaming is impossible due to your IP changing or balancing across the connections, then losing connection. I used a PF Sense bitti bob on a linux box thingi. Dont go down that track.

@Hio77 recall when i torrented on that line? 100mb/s over vdsl :)

Works for torrenting, Not much else.

That sounds like it would only be an issue if I'm trying to implement load-balancing I guess? Realistically it would just be our general use devices (phones, laptops) that use the Skinny connection, and they'd be set to use the Skinny connection specifically, everything else would use the Bigpipe connection via DHCP.

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1760246 10-Apr-2017 14:32

D.W:

TimA:

Very complicated situation.

Keep your bigpipe ADSL you wont get anything better than that.
The Skinny 4G broadband sounds cool but there is no way you can practically load balance the two services, I load balanced two VDSL lines, one 70mb and the other 40mb.

All i can say is that it lasted a few days before i ripped it out, My hair was next.. Gaming is impossible due to your IP changing or balancing across the connections, then losing connection. I used a PF Sense bitti bob on a linux box thingi. Dont go down that track.

@Hio77 recall when i torrented on that line? 100mb/s over vdsl :)

Works for torrenting, Not much else.

That sounds like it would only be an issue if I'm trying to implement load-balancing I guess? Realistically it would just be our general use devices (phones, laptops) that use the Skinny connection, and they'd be set to use the Skinny connection specifically, everything else would use the Bigpipe connection via DHCP.

So your wanting to have a separate "subnets?" for your browsing traffic to use the Skinny connection and your gaming/server setup to use the stable fixed network? I have not used the Ubiquiti Edgerouter before but it looks like some great gear with some great software. So it wouldnt surprise me if it can do this with ease.

Do you need to transfer data between the two internal networks if you separate them? That might be your only limitation.

My networking knowledge has sorta left me 3 years ago :/ Im probably not much help.

D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1760251 10-Apr-2017 14:37

TimA:

So your wanting to have a separate "subnets?" for your browsing traffic to use the Skinny connection and your gaming/server setup to use the stable fixed network? I have not used the Ubiquiti Edgerouter before but it looks like some great gear with some great software. So it wouldnt surprise me if it can do this with ease.

Do you need to transfer data between the two internal networks if you separate them? That might be your only limitation.

My networking knowledge has sorta left me 3 years ago :/ Im probably not much help.

All on the same subnet I believe, but with different gateways.

Coil

6614 posts

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Inactive user

#1760262 10-Apr-2017 14:49

D.W:

TimA:

So your wanting to have a separate "subnets?" for your browsing traffic to use the Skinny connection and your gaming/server setup to use the stable fixed network? I have not used the Ubiquiti Edgerouter before but it looks like some great gear with some great software. So it wouldnt surprise me if it can do this with ease.

Do you need to transfer data between the two internal networks if you separate them? That might be your only limitation.

My networking knowledge has sorta left me 3 years ago :/ Im probably not much help.

All on the same subnet I believe, but with different gateways.

How will each device know what gateway to use? Will you allocate static leases with a pre configured gateway? (I'd configure the end devices)

Can the Edge router handle two WAN connections on the same subnet and IP range?
Can you allocate the skinny modem/stick its own IP (Default gateway) as your would with the Draytek?
If you can i suppose it wont have any issues as the router will just be providing DHCP and routing the traffic to the configured default gateway.

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littlehead

214 posts

Master Geek

#1760311 10-Apr-2017 15:32

richms:

You can just plug the skinny router into your lan, give it an IP in the same range and disable its DHCP, then manually configure the gateway on devices that should use the skinny connection.

Disable ipv6 on everything since that isnt that easy.

This is exactly what I did when I ran Bigpipe ADSL and Skinny 4G before the Skinny connection became worse than the ADSL one in every case and I gave it up. I considered a Dual-WAN system but I decided it was too much work for little gain. I used a system tray quick network setting profile changing tool to quickly switch desktops between each connection. Having two different SSID's for the same Wi-Fi network also meant I could easily switch between them on Wi-Fi only devices, one via DHCP, the other with IP/Gateway details set manually. As long as you aren't adding devices all the time, then once things are setup that's it.

D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1760315 10-Apr-2017 15:44

littlehead:

This is exactly what I did when I ran Bigpipe ADSL and Skinny 4G before the Skinny connection became worse than the ADSL one in every case and I gave it up. I considered a Dual-WAN system but I decided it was too much work for little gain. I used a system tray quick network setting profile changing tool to quickly switch desktops between each connection. Having two different SSID's for the same Wi-Fi network also meant I could easily switch between them on Wi-Fi only devices, one via DHCP, the other with IP/Gateway details set manually. As long as you aren't adding devices all the time, then once things are setup that's it.

Was it speed specifically? Any other issues? I ran it for 3 weeks previously and speeds were good/stable, but returned it within 30 days for refund.

I'm semi-rural and surrounded by a reasonable number of holiday homes, so hopefully there shouldn't be as much of an issue with congestion.

littlehead

214 posts

Master Geek

#1760344 10-Apr-2017 16:37

D.W:

Was it speed specifically? Any other issues? I ran it for 3 weeks previously and speeds were good/stable, but returned it within 30 days for refund.

I'm semi-rural and surrounded by a reasonable number of holiday homes, so hopefully there shouldn't be as much of an issue with congestion.

It was mostly great for the first three months, and then went downhill. While speedtests were great all throughout, 45 up and 10 down, actual constant throughput because less than my 15 down 1 up ADSL connection. It was great for about there months from September to November, but in December and January it went completely down hill and so I stopped renewing it. It never worked well for streaming video at all, constantly buffering despite the large download, but it was initially fine cause I could shift everything else onto it and get great streaming through my ADSL connection because of only one device running through it. Gaming I never ran off the Skinny connection, latency was a real issue, so I switched my PC between them as required depending on what I was doing. Voip calling I also did through the ADSL connection. It was a bit of a pain remembering to switch between them but I got used to it by the end.

If the actual speeds didn't drop so badly, and it was bad all the time by the end, not just during "peak" times, I would definitely still be running it no question. At least until the new UFB laws come in and I can finally get UFB installed, sucks having it available but can't actually get it due to absentee landlord neighbours. Hopefully being rural, you won't see the slowdown/capacity issues I did.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1760379 10-Apr-2017 18:37

Personally how i do this, is i have a PFsense node running in balancing - Soon to move to a routerboard when i perfect its settings!

I have a VDSL link and ADSL link, With a 3G/4G link i stick up for extra testing when required - May look at installing non copper alternatives.

In terms of management of where the traffic goes, some is routed out certain wans for given reasons, while on the other hand general data goes anywhere.

When i'm doing extra testing (including Mobile connections) i'll route that pipe very specifically for obvious reasons.

for my personal torrenting (which is very few and far between - I have a rclone that runs for my distos repository) i tag packets on the outbound from my machine to make routing easy.

Stop gap calculations of "bulk data" being "every other port" can work havoc on gamers, I'm looking forward to pushing routerboards Layer 7 functions...

As others have pointed out, ipv6 connectivity can muddy the waters as your essentially routing a network to the machines rather than natting but otherwise go for gold!

Certainly within the realm of possibility.

Here is a quick test, with load on the network from other machines, 17/1.2 ADSL 24/1.2 VDSL (midway through the DLM changes)

On the mention of DLM changes, that 17/1.2 is up from 12/1 so... improvements are on their way

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

tdgeek

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#1760394 10-Apr-2017 19:24

D.W:

Currently with BigPipe, only able to get ADSL at my address and the speeds aren't great (max of approx. 12mbit down, 2mbit up).

I tried out Skinny Broadband over 4G which was much better (approx. 40mbit up and down), but the 100GB cap is insufficient.

I have ethernet cabling run throughout my house, and current setup is as follows:

Draytek Vigor 120 into Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP. Off this is a Unifi UAP-AC, and a couple of hard-wired devices (home server, dlink switch which a couple of gaming consoles are connected to).

What I am considering, is re-joining with Skinny, configuring a second WAN interface on my Edgerouter and running the Skinny modem into that. I understand this requires double-NAT'ing, but don't know exactly what configuring this entails.

I would ideally then have DHCP set up to use the existing BigPipe connection, or I can manually configure to use the Skinny connection on certain devices, but have all connections able to communicate within the LAN, and all WiFi devices using the Unifi AP.

Is this possible (with my current hardware)?

ADSL, 2 bit up? I thought the max configured by Chorus for ADSL2+ is 24/1

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1760395 10-Apr-2017 19:26

tdgeek:

ADSL, 2 bit up? I thought the max configured by Chorus for ADSL2+ is 24/1

1 is realistically max achiveable.

With DLM roll-out, 1.4 may be possible..

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1760396 10-Apr-2017 19:26

tdgeek:

ADSL, 2 bit up? I thought the max configured by Chorus for ADSL2+ is 24/1

Sorry yes that was off the top of my head at work, ran a speed test this evening once I got home and it was actually around 0.7 up.