Improving my Wifi situation... Better wifi router vs Mesh solution

Forums › LAN (ethernet/Wifi/routers/Bluetooth) › Improving my Wifi situation... Better wifi router vs Mesh solution

Aaroona

3196 posts

Uber Geek

#245144 20-Jan-2019 19:09

I've been doing some reading and haven't really found an answer to ny question, but I have found a number of people steering clear of Mesh solutions.

I live in an three storey unit, I'm on the second floor. I am flatting with two others and running a cable is not an option to the second or third floor sadly. (not my house, not my choice!)

Our current network is;

Router: NF18ACV
Wifi: aforementioned NF18ACV and a wifi extender on third floor (netgear something).
Connection: gigabit/Slingshot.

Coverage in my room is pretty bad being about 10 meters from the router, 1 floor above. We had an occasion the other night where I was downloading something on my computer, barely getting 2-3MB/s and my flatmate upstairs came down and said he couldn't game, presumably because my weak Wifi connection was sucking priority from the wifi extender than he runs from.

So ideally I'd like to improve my wifi coverage to my room - our gigabit connection is most definitely not the bottle neck here, but the wifi is.

I've considered getting a Mesh wifi solution (1 hub + 1 satellite), but have heard throughout isn't the best.
the other option, is purchase a decent Wifi access point that is better than the NF18ACV and place it in the same location.

What would be the best option here? I'd like to maximise my ability to use the gigabit connection (but of course understand than gigabit over wifi is a unicorn). I'm not particularly concerned if I buy a router that only I end up being connected to (or if it makes the network a bit of a mess), but just need something that will work and improve the 1 bar signal issue I have and not cause issues for the wifi extender upstairs.

Having to try and explain the benefits of purchasing networking gear to my flat is not really an option.. not going there again!

1 | 2

meow
13271 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2164419 20-Jan-2019 19:19

How much are you wanting to / willing to spend?

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? Please consider supporting us by subscribing.
Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

dfnt

1514 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2164426 20-Jan-2019 19:42

Edgerouter 4 + either a Ubiquiti nanoHD or HD

Jase2985

13466 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2164438 20-Jan-2019 20:43

where have you read "a number of people steering clear of Mesh solutions"

they would be the second best solution behind actually running cables and wiring in access points.

Predated

177 posts

Master Geek

#2164443 20-Jan-2019 20:57

If you're all having issues, how about running some Ethernet cables along the floor tidily?

I've done it before in flats, little bit of tape to the skirting board and a small rug where they cross door ways

Doesn't work once your married but is fine for a flat :)

michaelmurfy

meow
13271 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2164444 20-Jan-2019 20:58

Mesh solutions (like the Ubiquiti AmpliFi) are very good if you want something that /just works/ and is fast.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29771 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2164445 20-Jan-2019 21:04

someone's selling an asus rt ac68u router try to negotiate that down and that could work. i don't specifically have that one but i have another asus and i can get wifi from across the road (2.4ghz) from my house whereas my spark supplied router has a black spot in my laundry (both 5ghz and 2.4ghz).

in order of reliability, all things being equal, wired > 5ghz > 2.4ghz (but 5ghz has less range than 2.4)

SATTV

1649 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2164464 20-Jan-2019 22:22

As others have said, Mesh is the number 2 solution, ethernet being number 1.

You could try ethernet over power devices, I have had mixed results.

Most people dont know how to install a wireless extender properly, to be honest they are not great at the best of times.

Relocate the extender closer to the router, most people put the extender where they have poor wifi, you need to put it where there is good wifi so it can extend a good signal.

Also be wary of higher powered wireless access points, think of it as a conversation, one person talking normally and the other person with a megaphone, after some distance you can still hear the megaphone but they cant hear you.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Aaroona

3196 posts

Uber Geek

#2164488 21-Jan-2019 00:09

michaelmurfy:
How much are you wanting to / willing to spend?

I was thinking up to $300 was probably reasonable? (keeping in mind it doesn't have to be an all out network redesign)

dfnt:
Edgerouter 4 + either a Ubiquiti nanoHD or HD

Would probably give the router replacement a miss, but I did look at the HD (assuming you mean the AP-HD?). Would this be significantly better reception wise than the current router? I've been out of Wifi device specs etc. for a while. I do see it has MU-MIMO which is good, definitely would prefer to have it, depending on how much it pushes the price.

Jase2985:
where have you read "a number of people steering clear of Mesh solutions"
they would be the second best solution behind actually running cables and wiring in access points.

I will dig out some of the links - but even here on the forum there were suggestions to stay away from them and prefer a better AP, sighting speed limitations with mesh technology. As mentioned above, I've not had a lot of exposure to the last few generations of wifi devices, so really couldn't say either way.

Predated:
If you're all having issues, how about running some Ethernet cables along the floor tidily?...

As mentioned in my post, not possible, Owner is not keen on drilling holes at all, let alone between floors to allow for another AP on second floor.
Can't really run a cable (unless I have a 50m one) to run from the kitchen, because of where the ONT is located.. Unfortunately no forethought was put in clearly when the ran the fiber :)

michaelmurfy:
Mesh solutions (like the Ubiquiti AmpliFi) are very good if you want something that /just works/ and is fast.

Did consider trying to find one of these either second hand or with only one satellite to try keep costs down. Have you had first hand experience with these? would these achieve 300-400mbps from the satellites?

SATTV:

As others have said, Mesh is the number 2 solution, ethernet being number 1.

You could try ethernet over power devices, I have had mixed results.

Most people dont know how to install a wireless extender properly, to be honest they are not great at the best of times.

Relocate the extender closer to the router, most people put the extender where they have poor wifi, you need to put it where there is good wifi so it can extend a good signal.

Also be wary of higher powered wireless access points, think of it as a conversation, one person talking normally and the other person with a megaphone, after some distance you can still hear the megaphone but they cant hear you.

John

The wiring is this place is not the best, so I will give EoP a miss, particularly given the mixed results I've seen.
Relocating the extender could work, but I think it's a cheaper device and suffers from only having a single/dual radio. So no dedicated backhaul to the main router, so there's still a throughput issue there, unless I've missed something.

Batman:
someone's selling an asus rt ac68u router try to negotiate that down and that could work...

Thanks - will take a look.

Thanks all for the replies.

Would love to hear more about peoples experiences with Mesh routers and partiularly their throughput. All the reviews I've seen so far online are using a 100mbps connection to do testing, so really doesn't help for those of us lucky enough to have faster connections/local media being served.

michaelmurfy

meow
13271 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2164497 21-Jan-2019 01:54

As for performance of the Ubiquiti AmpliFi then yes - I do test many many routers (see the link in my signature).

I've seen 400Mbit+ on the AmpliFi and it is designed as a full router solution also. Essentially this means taking the NF18ACV out of the mix for you (which, is a good thing).

Since you don't want to run Ethernet then grabbing a mesh solution is your best option. I've had great speeds with both the Orbi and the AmpliFi.

There are some other Mesh solutions out there that come a little closer to your budget but honestly, I think you're best extending said budget. The following are untested by myself however I've heard good things about them:

Linksys Velop WHW0103 Whole Home Mesh Wi-Fi System (Pack of 3) (PBTech)
TP-Link Deco M5, AC1300 Whole-Home Mesh Wi-Fi System - 2 Pack (PBTech)

While a single access point may work I'm going to go with "yes, it'll work but you'll still get coverage issues". Spend the money and do it right the first time.

Lastly, range extenders halve the speed of your WiFi where mesh solutions do not.

richms

28215 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2164498 21-Jan-2019 01:56

The speed problems are that you wont get the full line speed off them. THat is the case with any wifi device virtually. They will still be a hell of a lot better than anything involving extenders. Just make sure its a proper meshing setup with multiple radios. Many other routers (cough asus cough) are promsing mesh but just using single 5GHz radios in each device so they're not much better than a repeater for thruput. They wont be doing dodgey mac address shenanigans so that will help with things like airplay and casting etc.

Richard rich.ms

geekiegeek

2513 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2164502 21-Jan-2019 05:41

I'll sell you a Netgear Orbi RBR50 set for $420 including shipping. It's only a couple of months old and works well - its one of the fastest mesh systems available and has a dedicated backhaul. Only reason I'm selling is I decided to go full geek with an Edgerouter 4 and Amplifi NanoHD.

PM if interested. I should still have the receipt somewhere as well for warranty.

Gordy7

1906 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2164503 21-Jan-2019 05:44

Have you done a survey with a WiFi analyzer to see how crowded the WiFi channels are? Neighbors in the vicinity...
Also you would get an idea of your WiFi signal strength...

Gordy

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.

MileHighKiwi

782 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2164520 21-Jan-2019 07:33

We use google wifi in our place, 3 units over a 190m2 two story house, and its excellent.

I dont know all the geekie stats but it works, was easy to install and we haven't had any problems with it.

1101

3122 posts

Uber Geek

#2164565 21-Jan-2019 09:49

The powerline EOP unit can be a good cheap choice .
Ive installed a dozen or so, only had one site where it wouldnt work. They are now alot better than the used to be way back when .
You can often pick them up dirt cheap on trademe, since its just for you I guess you could use the ethernet only powerline kits

If the Mesh solution doesnt work in your house, thats a big expense your stuck with . Make sure you can return it if it doesnt work out .
Mesh needs to transmit wifi between nodes, some homes/buildings just block wifi so I do wonder how well they can work where wifi attenuates so much in those homes

Aaroona

3196 posts

Uber Geek

#2165795 22-Jan-2019 21:09

michaelmurfy:

As for performance of the Ubiquiti AmpliFi then yes - I do test many many routers (see the link in my signature).

I've seen 400Mbit+ on the AmpliFi and it is designed as a full router solution also. Essentially this means taking the NF18ACV out of the mix for you (which, is a good thing).

Since you don't want to run Ethernet then grabbing a mesh solution is your best option. I've had great speeds with both the Orbi and the AmpliFi.

There are some other Mesh solutions out there that come a little closer to your budget but honestly, I think you're best extending said budget. The following are untested by myself however I've heard good things about them:

Linksys Velop WHW0103 Whole Home Mesh Wi-Fi System (Pack of 3) (PBTech)
TP-Link Deco M5, AC1300 Whole-Home Mesh Wi-Fi System - 2 Pack (PBTech)

While a single access point may work I'm going to go with "yes, it'll work but you'll still get coverage issues". Spend the money and do it right the first time.

Lastly, range extenders halve the speed of your WiFi where mesh solutions do not.

Yeah I'm not big on range extenders for that reason.
I'd imagine I would have a pretty good chance of getting that kind of throughput then. 5Ghz is not overly used around this area and the satellite wouldn't be all that far from the main unit.

I will see if I can find a secondhand AmpliFi or Orbi set. Though I suspect ~300 won't be enough.

richms:

The speed problems are that you wont get the full line speed off them. THat is the case with any wifi device virtually. They will still be a hell of a lot better than anything involving extenders. Just make sure its a proper meshing setup with multiple radios. Many other routers (cough asus cough) are promsing mesh but just using single 5GHz radios in each device so they're not much better than a repeater for thruput. They wont be doing dodgey mac address shenanigans so that will help with things like airplay and casting etc.

Fully understand I'm not going to get full line speed. It would be nice to be able to achieve 300mbps+ though. I will definitely make sure that anything I buy has 2x5ghz radios/proper meshing.

geekiegeek:

I'll sell you a Netgear Orbi RBR50 set for $420 including shipping. It's only a couple of months old and works well - its one of the fastest mesh systems available and has a dedicated backhaul. Only reason I'm selling is I decided to go full geek with an Edgerouter 4 and Amplifi NanoHD.

PM if interested. I should still have the receipt somewhere as well for warranty.

Thanks! I'll keep it in mind. $420 is above what I had planned to spend, so will need to consider if I want to be dropping that kind of money in the flat and what my other options are.

Gordy7: Have you done a survey with a WiFi analyzer to see how crowded the WiFi channels are? Neighbors in the vicinity...
Also you would get an idea of your WiFi signal strength...

I haven't, no. Any recommendations for an analyser? (either Windows/iOS/Android based?). I don't think we have much crowding thankfully at this end of the CBD.

MileHighKiwi: We use google wifi in our place, 3 units over a 190m2 two story house, and its excellent.

I dont know all the geekie stats but it works, was easy to install and we haven't had any problems with it.

Thanks. Yeah a friend of mine does have google wifi, but only on a 100/20 connection. Only 2 downsides I see with that deployment was "potential" privacy issues (it's google after all) and the fact it's only using AC1200, which I don't think has any dedicated radio's for backhaul.

1101:

The powerline EOP unit can be a good cheap choice .
Ive installed a dozen or so, only had one site where it wouldnt work. They are now alot better than the used to be way back when .
You can often pick them up dirt cheap on trademe, since its just for you I guess you could use the ethernet only powerline kits

If the Mesh solution doesnt work in your house, thats a big expense your stuck with . Make sure you can return it if it doesnt work out .
Mesh needs to transmit wifi between nodes, some homes/buildings just block wifi so I do wonder how well they can work where wifi attenuates so much in those homes

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll be staying away from EoP - I don't really have a spare power plug I can dedicate on this floor which doesn't have a multiadapter in it (only 2 plus per room, annoyingly)

appreciate the comments on the limitations with Mesh. Definitely a consideration. I think it'll be okay. The other room on this floor has fantastic coverage (being directly above where the router sits) and can easily get 200-300mbps, through the floor. So I think a mesh solution would work fine, provided there was enough bandwidth between the main node and the satellite.

I think what I'm hearing from this thread though, is that the Mesh solutions (provided they have a dedicated backhaul/tri radio setup) will work for me and deliver the speed I am wanting, as long as the signal between the main unit and satellite is sufficient. I think a satellite put in the lounge (directly below me), which would have line of sight to the main hub should work.

1 | 2