Genesis want to upgrade Power Meter by Vector to smart meter. Benefit or not?

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Genesis want to upgrade Power Meter by Vector to smart meter. Benefit or not?

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#2891532 24-Mar-2022 19:03

Interesting point.

It still remains that the OP has already granted Genesis the right to upgrade the meter and access the property.

Genesis terms and conditions
6.5 Advanced meters

We may, at any time, replace the meter at your premises with an advanced meter . You agree that you will not object to us , or prevent us from, replacing your meter with an advanced meter .

gregmcc

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#2891587 24-Mar-2022 19:22

Handle9: Interesting point.

It still remains that the OP has already granted Genesis the right to upgrade the meter and access the property.

Genesis terms and conditions
6.5 Advanced meters

We may, at any time, replace the meter at your premises with an advanced meter . You agree that you will not object to us , or prevent us from, replacing your meter with an advanced meter .

That may be correct, but the OP can rescind that access any time they like.

companies can have clauses like this in contracts, but should push come to shove it would be very difficult for them to enforce this and it won't be a genesis person who comes out to change the meter, it will be a contracted company and their employed electrician who would be very reluctant to do work on any installation (meter board) if there was a note detailing that a formal complaint to the EWRB would happen.

I had this problem a few years ago with Genesis, they ignored my emails, their contractor turned up to change the meter and saw the letter, they declined to do the job and there was no further contact from Genesis regarding this.

At the end of the day the meter board belongs to the OP, not the power retailer, the OP gets to say what happens or does not happen on their property no matter what T&C's a company may try to impose

insane

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#2891594 24-Mar-2022 19:45

gregmcc:
Handle9:

If the meter is unable to be read due to obsolescence it is a maintenance issue.

The relevant section of the electricity act (section 23):

(3)

In this section, maintenance includes—

(a) any repairs and any other activities for the purpose of maintaining, or that have the effect of maintaining, existing works; and

(b) the carrying out of any replacement or upgrade of existing works as long as the land will not be injuriously affected as a result of the replacement or upgrade.

"Section 23 Rights of entry in respect of existing works"

The definition of works in the Electricity Act

works—
(a) means any fittings that are used, or designed or intended for use, in or in
connection with the generation, conversion, transformation, or conveyance
of electricity; but
(b) does not include any part of an electrical installation

it specifically excludes any part of an "installation."

electrical installation—
(a) means—
(i) in relation to a property with a point of supply, all fittings beyond
the point of supply that form part of a system that is used to convey
electricity to a point of consumption, or used to generate or
store electricity; and
(ii) in relation to a property without a point of supply, all fittings that
form part of a system that is used to convey electricity to a point
of consumption, or used to generate or store electricity; but

------------------

in short your house is an installation, so section 23 does not apply.

Installation in this context would presumably be referring to anything beyond the meter. I.e inside the house etc.

But that aside, why would you be so against something so innocuous as a meter upgrade? Did you have some kind of bad experience with the law or govt entity?

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#2891597 24-Mar-2022 19:51

insane:

Installation in this context would presumably be referring to anything beyond the meter. I.e inside the house etc.

But that aside, why would you be so against something so innocuous as a meter upgrade? Did you have some kind of bad experience with the law or govt entity?

It changes from works to installation at the point of supply, which would be the pole fuse or the pillar box out on the street.

Not so much against, but the power company is saving a bunch of money by moving to a smart meter - is this been passed on....short answer no, so why do should you be helping out the power company that isn't prepared to share their savings?

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#2891598 24-Mar-2022 19:54

DjShadow:
Looks like this is a needed upgrade so the Vodafone 2G/GSM network can be phased out

@DjShadow Rather the 3G network was turned off

insane

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#2891648 24-Mar-2022 20:08

gregmcc:
insane:

Installation in this context would presumably be referring to anything beyond the meter. I.e inside the house etc.

But that aside, why would you be so against something so innocuous as a meter upgrade? Did you have some kind of bad experience with the law or govt entity?

It changes from works to installation at the point of supply, which would be the pole fuse or the pillar box out on the street.

Not so much against, but the power company is saving a bunch of money by moving to a smart meter - is this been passed on....short answer no, so why do should you be helping out the power company that isn't prepared to share their savings?

That's part of their service optimisation. Should they pass the savings they make from switching print cartridge supplier onto the customer?

The carrot for the customer is:

- No more estimates
- No longer someone random entering their property every two months.
- Electricity usage insights via their app.
- A newer meter and a reset in the hardware MTBR
- More accurate meter readings

Obviously if they are replacing a smart meter with a VF simcard to a Spark simcard then it's continued use of the above. I'm sure if you asked they would schedule the upgrade do you can plan around it.

Also I'm surprised the meter is considered the home owners property given its locked and has tamper seals, I would have thought it would be the same as the water metre. But then again I'm not a energy inspector.

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#2891651 24-Mar-2022 20:12

gregmcc:

Not so much against, but the power company is saving a bunch of money by moving to a smart meter - is this been passed on....short answer no, so why do should you be helping out the power company that isn't prepared to share their savings?

You aren't "helping them out" you are honouring your contract. If you don't like the contract find one you do like or go off grid.

They aren't putting consumers in a worse position with smart meters, quite the opposite. Products like electric kiwi hour of power and the Contact Good Night plan are only possible with smart metering.

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#2891652 24-Mar-2022 20:13

insane: Also I'm surprised the meter is considered the home owners property given its locked and has tamper seals, I would have thought it would be the same as the water metre. But then again I'm not a energy inspector.

The meter isn't the home owners property but it is installed on their premises.

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#2891657 24-Mar-2022 20:24

Handle9:

gregmcc:

Not so much against, but the power company is saving a bunch of money by moving to a smart meter - is this been passed on....short answer no, so why do should you be helping out the power company that isn't prepared to share their savings?

You aren't "helping them out" you are honouring your contract. If you don't like the contract find one you do like or go off grid.

They aren't putting consumers in a worse position with smart meters, quite the opposite. Products like electric kiwi hour of power and the Contact Good Night plan are only possible with smart metering.

The power companies don't tell you a very important downside, they can turn you power off remotely, a good example was last year when there were rolling blackouts, a lot of people had their power shut off remotely, not me, the good old dumb meter kept on ticking over.

Yes there are upsides and downside for both smart meters and dumb meters, but the choice still remains with the installation owner and cannot be forced by the power company no matter what T&C's they try to slip in to their "agreements".

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#2891658 24-Mar-2022 20:30

Handle9:

insane: Also I'm surprised the meter is considered the home owners property given its locked and has tamper seals, I would have thought it would be the same as the water metre. But then again I'm not a energy inspector.

The meter isn't the home owners property but it is installed on their premises.

The meter is not owned by the retailer either, it is owned by the metering company, usually there is no contractual agreement between the meter owner and the installation owner, the agreement usually exists between retailer and the meter owner. There are some exceptions to this, for example WEL networks have their own smart meters and if you switch to them as your retailer then they own the network, and the meter and cut out the metering company charges.

Handle9

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#2891673 24-Mar-2022 20:43

gregmcc:

The power companies don't tell you a very important downside, they can turn you power off remotely, a good example was last year when there were rolling blackouts, a lot of people had their power shut off remotely, not me, the good old dumb meter kept on ticking over.

Yes there are upsides and downside for both smart meters and dumb meters, but the choice still remains with the installation owner and cannot be forced by the power company no matter what T&C's they try to slip in to their "agreements".

They do tell you. It's written in the conditions. They explicitly say "If an advanced meter has been installed at your premises, we may disconnect your supply of energy remotely."

If you don't bother to read and understand that then bad luck. They haven't hidden it from you. Similarly they have the right to remove supply from you in an emergency, which the rolling blackouts clearly were.

You keep trying to assert that this is some kind of nefarious ploy on the part of the retailer. It's not. If a consumer doesn't like what they offer they should find another provider.

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#2891725 24-Mar-2022 20:59

Handle9:

They do tell you. It's written in the conditions. They explicitly say "If an advanced meter has been installed at your premises, we may disconnect your supply of energy remotely."

If you don't bother to read and understand that then bad luck. They haven't hidden it from you. Similarly they have the right to remove supply from you in an emergency, which the rolling blackouts clearly were.

You keep trying to assert that this is some kind of nefarious ploy on the part of the retailer. It's not. If a consumer doesn't like what they offer they should find another provider.

it still comes down to the fact that they cannot force a change in meter from a dumb meter to a smart meter, I have proven this several years ago when Genesis tried to do this to me - it simply did not happen when I refused permission, Yes it may cost Genesis more in metering costs, no I don't get access to the bonuses. That is my choice and a choice anyone else can make if offered the smart meter upgrade.

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#2891726 24-Mar-2022 21:06

@gregmcc on what basis you would deny upgrading the meter? What do you gain by denying access?

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#2891730 24-Mar-2022 21:17

gregmcc:

it still comes down to the fact that they cannot force a change in meter from a dumb meter to a smart meter, I have proven this several years ago when Genesis tried to do this to me - it simply did not happen when I refused permission, Yes it may cost Genesis more in metering costs, no I don't get access to the bonuses. That is my choice and a choice anyone else can make if offered the smart meter upgrade.

Whatever your reasons, I'd venture to suggest you're in the minority on this one.

For me, frankly I got sick of estimated readings month after month, which overestimated actual use and reading the meter myself and providing updates to the retailer was just a complete hassle. No such issues with a smart meter.

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#2891735 24-Mar-2022 21:29

We received this email a few days ago in Christchurch.

"We need to replace the electricity meter at your property

Your electricity retailer, Meridian Energy, has identified that the electricity meter at .................... is due to be upgraded.

This is to ensure the meter remains compliant and meets New Zealand electricity regulations. The meter change is scheduled to be completed by a Vector Metering contractor between the 1st of May and the 12th of June 2022.

What you need to know

The current meter will be replaced with a fully certified meter. The meter must be replaced for your property to remain compliant"

Our current meter is an Arcinovations "smart" meter.

I have no problem with this meter change. After all it is theirs.

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