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Topic # 228987 2-Feb-2018 07:03
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I've worked aboard. I have noticed that for in-demand jobs in New Zealand

* description and pay levels are ridiculously out-of-of sync

* almost no one gives a salary range, thereby wasting everyone's time.

* wages are still at levels from 10 to 20 years ago

For example, here's a position at LINZ in Wellington CBD that they are having trouble filling (go figure).

For a Data and Reporting Analyst role, they are starting at $50,000 to $65,000.

Here's what they require:


Understanding of data tools and databases: e.g SQL
* Knowledge of report writing using standard tools such as SSRS and/or Power BI
* Knowledge of Excel reporting, macros, charting and Pivot Tables
During ASaTS Transition, assisting with data migration, data quality improvements, and data reconciliations as required
* Monitoring known data quality issues
* Create individual scripts for data fixes from templates and generate change orders to run these scripts
Providing informed property systems data analysis, data matching and ad-hoc extracts
* Developing and maintaining reports, extracts and dashboards as required.
* Advising on data supply and giving advice regarding external databases (supplied via bulk data extract and other scheduled extracts/reports)
* Supporting the current reporting tools and maintaining reporting and data documents
* Undertaking manual report scheduling or running


It's not just LINZ, CCDHB wanted a person with extensive data warehouse experience for $75,000. Again this is a very lucrative job.

IT salaries have not risen substantially in 10 years, yet housing prices have gone through the roof.

If they do fill the job at this pay level, the person will keep for less than a year until they get a better offer.

It's just annoying.

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  Reply # 1950430 2-Feb-2018 07:19
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That is a basic job at a government agency. Not really an IT job.

That range is the range I pay for graduate recruits. My only requirement is A average, no MBA, and good writing skills (so, no-one who has worked aboard).




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  Reply # 1950431 2-Feb-2018 07:20
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I wonder if they are 'pricing' the role based on the job title (Data and reporting analyst) rather than the content of the JD - perhaps a case of a lazy HR manager or consultant. Because that salary would be consistent with that job title in many cases where the job has much lower requirements.


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  Reply # 1950433 2-Feb-2018 07:37
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Looks potentially an advanced graduate role. Ie; someone who has used those tools in research etc. I'd guess a candidate scoring 7/10 on the requirements will be in. On the same basis also looks like a good role for someone coming from a different job area. Its possible the next position up adds senior to the same title.

Could also be a vacant position but the manager does not actually want to hire anyone. That would be bad but it does happen in the corporate world.

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  Reply # 1950434 2-Feb-2018 07:42
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gzt: Looks potentially an advanced graduate role. Ie; someone who has used those tools in research etc. I'd guess a candidate scoring 7/10 on the requirements will be in. On the same basis also looks like a good role for someone coming from a different job area. Its possible the next position up adds senior to the same title.

Could also be a vacant position but the manager does not actually want to hire anyone. That would be bad but it does happen in the corporate world.

 

 

 

Good point - JD makes poor distinction between requirements and nice to haves


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  Reply # 1950435 2-Feb-2018 07:55
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Saw a role last year that made me laugh....

 

They wanted things like : SQL experience, PHP, AD, Exchange, Hardware installs, software installs, hardware repairs right down to re-soldering caps etc, mobile phone repairs (all aspects) and the list went on, was a mix of every technical role you can think of.

 

Plus, IIRC, they wanted you to work something like 10 hour days and they could shift you to a different site at next to no notice.

 

For all this, they were offering (insert drum roll) - $38-45k depending on experience!

 

It was for a small chain of computer stores, so on top of the technical stuff, you'd also have to play sales/customer service as well. (Probably along the lines of "No, you need a whole new PC at $2000 because your hard drive failed")

 

 





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  Reply # 1950436 2-Feb-2018 08:10
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A lot of industries have had stagnant wages over the last 10-15 years. IT is just catching up.





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  Reply # 1950437 2-Feb-2018 08:11
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I hate to compare the New Zealand market to the US, because of obvious differences.

However I noticed a contrary trend.

In the US, a highly specialized job "in the sticks", in a remote rural area, you get paid more than for jobs in urban areas. Plus there's often a relocation package and paid travel for interviews.

The reason is obvious: for someone with lots of specialized skills, they're unlikely to live in the area.

Considering that houses even in rural areas cost a lot, "quality of living" argument only goes so far.

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  Reply # 1950483 2-Feb-2018 08:36
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I started IT in the 90's, and I don't believe salaries have increased much since then. 

 

I started on around 40k per year back then.. would be similar today for a fresh grad?

 

More competition from foreign workers, systems are more open, free training on the web, cloud computing takes the work away too. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1950813 2-Feb-2018 16:44
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what rips my daks is that - yes - the wages seem very similar to the late 90's and even then there were ridiculous expectations of working 60 - 80 hours per week on a low 40k salary. I literally could have earned more working in a factory on an hourly wage.  Now 20 years later I doubt I could earn much more despite experience but have kids and a wife to support.

 

They keep squwarking there is a huge lack of it workers in NZ but pay peanuts. The IT industry has always been a slave labour market except for a very elite few - mostly those with less experience and more management and sales skills - not technical skills.

 

Also many of us with experience of in house programming, vb, lotus notes, c++, etc - standard app skills have been dumped in favour of cloud systems - and the languages are not suitable. PHP and others are no where near as robust or  fit for purpose as the 'old fashioned' application development ones were / are.  Being php / javascript expert leaves you wide open to the whole downward pressure of global workers working for <$5 per hour.  quality control is not something that springs to mind with that type of system but no one seems to care until it falls to pieces.

 

I hate debugging javascript on the DOM - there is so much you just cannot track the way you used to - and following someone elses code who is using some arcane ajax update against tables that is totally opaque to tracking and debugging - aweful way to make a living.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1950817 2-Feb-2018 17:02
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Businesses as always willing to exploit workers specially in the IT area. If they wait long enough someone will eventually get the job at the price being offered

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  Reply # 1950827 2-Feb-2018 17:31
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surfisup1000:

 

I started IT in the 90's, and I don't believe salaries have increased much since then. 

 

I started on around 40k per year back then.. would be similar today for a fresh grad?

 

More competition from foreign workers, systems are more open, free training on the web, cloud computing takes the work away too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dam that just shows you how behind in terms of pay the IT sector is. Grad positions are $45-$55.

 

 

 

No wonder people from the 90's let alone people from 10 years ago could afford to purchase property on such low incomes.


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  Reply # 1950866 2-Feb-2018 18:52
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xpd:

 

Saw a role last year that made me laugh....

 

They wanted things like : SQL experience, PHP, AD, Exchange, Hardware installs, software installs, hardware repairs right down to re-soldering caps etc, mobile phone repairs (all aspects) and the list went on, was a mix of every technical role you can think of.

 

Plus, IIRC, they wanted you to work something like 10 hour days and they could shift you to a different site at next to no notice.

 

For all this, they were offering (insert drum roll) - $38-45k depending on experience!

 

It was for a small chain of computer stores, so on top of the technical stuff, you'd also have to play sales/customer service as well. (Probably along the lines of "No, you need a whole new PC at $2000 because your hard drive failed")

 

 

I can do most of that! cool ... although I must admit it's a while since I've actually taken a soldering iron to any PC component, although it has happened. Still find it hard to get enough work though.

My problem is living in a main centre is likely to make me go postal - or jump under a bus. I like and need a quiet semi-rural environment for sanity.

 

Despite the promise of UFB, rather than increasing work in smaller centres, it seems to have done the opposite to some extent, as it makes it easier for local businesses to choose larger firms in the main centres.

 

 


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  Reply # 1950918 2-Feb-2018 21:36
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I think there are several contributors to the wage stagnation in IT.

 

     

  1. For some years I think IT was (perhaps still is) a career of choice and attracted a lot of people which now has possibly created an over supply especially when you think about the next point.
  2. Because of the nature of the job IT can be done remotely and there is plenty of cheap labour in some overseas countries. I'm not saying it's always cost effective but when you consider the next two points you can see why some places use this source of IT expertise. The hidden costs are hard to measure.
  3. Many managers have never done the role to know what is involved and therefore don't always place enough value on the role. They see staff wages as a cost not as an investment.
  4. KPI's in many cases have a strong bias on reducing cost, wages is seen as an easy target.

 

The last two points apply in almost any industry.

 

These days you need to have either have skills that are specialised and or you need to make yourself expert in a niche market thereby giving you leverage to demand a better salary package.





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  Reply # 1950978 3-Feb-2018 00:05
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Theoretically wage rises and house price rises should be similar. But the last few governments  have allowed house prices to get out of control, without suitable controls being put in place. I don't even think now, enough is being done.  It has been fueled by cheaper and cheaper credit, and interest rates are only contining to drop.


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  Reply # 1950984 3-Feb-2018 00:31
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nickb800: ... - perhaps a case of a lazy HR manager or consultant. ...

 

I really don't think so. I've been keeping an eye on job ads for the last 3-4years in my field. The requirements are more onerous now with salaries the same a five - seven years ago.


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