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706 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 248104 10-Mar-2019 17:04
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Hi all,

Just wanting a bit of advice around upskilling in the tech sector, I’m currently in a project manager/ product owner role for a software house for the last 2 years or so. I currently have a diploma in ICT but no official project management qualifications. Wanting to upskill incase the need to move ever arises.
I was looking to start with a Prince2 foundations course but was wanting to get some feedback in regards to:

1. Is this worthwhile
2. If so who is a good provider? Has anyone done the online course at https://www.prince2.com/nzd
3. Are there other options better recognised than Prince2?
4. Are there other upskilling options I should be considering? I am working full time so wanting to do something part time.

All advice personal experiences welcome!

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175 posts

Master Geek


  # 2195168 10-Mar-2019 17:32
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Personally I don't think the Prince 2 Foundation course is worth the money as I have found it to be really basic and these courses are typically focused on passing the exam instead of expanding ones knowledge. The Practitioner course is not much better but has a bit more to it. The Prince 2 certification body Axelos is following PMI's example and now wants you to recertify every 3 years by either resitting the exam or earning 20 CPDs per year and become an Axelos member. I personally will not be renewing my Prince 2 as well as PMP certification from the Project Management Institute. 

 

You mention you have experience as a product owner so I assume you use an Agile delivery methodology. In that case you probably better off spending your time and money on a Scrum master certification or something like that. Prince 2 and PMI bot have an agile course as well but I have no personal experience with these yet. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2195223 10-Mar-2019 19:55
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Prince has value, but agile is more where things are these days.

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2195238 10-Mar-2019 20:20
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Having done PRINCE2 Practitioner I would say it does have value particularly for large govt / enterprise'y projects (not necessarily just IT) - especially if that's the language of the organisation(s) you're dealing with.

 

I haven't done the formal Agile stuff myself however having been around it enough I would definitely recommend it for software in general over PRINCE2 which is pretty bloated admin-wise.

 

If you're set on P2 I used these guys and didn't have any issues: https://www.project-laneways.co.nz/certification-courses/prince2

 

 


472 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2195549 11-Mar-2019 09:20
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I would get PSM I and then the follow on and much harder PSM II from the official scrum guys - Scrum.org  The other certification providers ride the gravy train by requiring you to re-certify every couple of years because they are just after the $$$


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Uber Geek


  # 2196069 11-Mar-2019 19:23
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While I can’t comment on which one is ideal to learn, as a Software Engineer with my “Methodologist” hat on I typically will draw from PMP, PRINCE, the CMMI and even ISO. These days, I will also use LEAN Management and Scaled Agile Framework.

For me its more about having a useful toolkit and good process maturity.




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Ultimate Geek


  # 2198219 14-Mar-2019 20:30
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Thanks for the feedback, it has changed my thinking a little, I think I will do a little more research into agile methodology certification.

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Uber Geek


  # 2198267 14-Mar-2019 21:41
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I would make the suggestion that Agile is not a methodology. It is more of a collection of principles.

However, if one has a good methodology in place, the agile principles can be applied in a relative fashion.






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  # 2198271 14-Mar-2019 21:44
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Scrum is a concrete agile methodology that's most commonly used and is ready to enough to certify in. Scrum and Prince would be a good combination.

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Uber Geek


  # 2198563 15-Mar-2019 13:35
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I wouldnt class scrum as a methodology either, it is more of a collection of ceremonies related to the scrum framework.

Although one could argue in principle that it is a methodology, I wouldnt class it as such.

A software methodology as I see it, is a very specific branch of engineering centered around the [scientific] analysis of the methods, process and principles around a field of study. That also includes qualitative and quantitative aspects as well.

A methodology does not in itself define individual methods, but more losely defines the strategy to be used.

For example, lets say one is following a process maturity methodology. It would not likely tell you how to go about doing process maturity. Instead it might ask a series of questions which in order to provide the answer, one must have implimented and performed methods or process, then performed some type of quantitative analysis on the result.

But in answer to the post, agile techniques do lend themselves towards being combined with methodologies (process-based-methods), although often one can find there is an agile equivalent.





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  # 2198585 15-Mar-2019 13:46
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TwoSeven: I wouldnt class scrum as a methodology either, it is more of a collection of ceremonies related to the scrum framework.

Although one could argue in principle that it is a methodology, I wouldnt class it as such.

A software methodology as I see it, is a very specific branch of engineering centered around the [scientific] analysis of the methods, process and principles around a field of study. That also includes qualitative and quantitative aspects as well.

A methodology does not in itself define individual methods, but more losely defines the strategy to be used.

For example, lets say one is following a process maturity methodology. It would not likely tell you how to go about doing process maturity. Instead it might ask a series of questions which in order to provide the answer, one must have implimented and performed methods or process, then performed some type of quantitative analysis on the result.

But in answer to the post, agile techniques do lend themselves towards being combined with methodologies (process-based-methods), although often one can find there is an agile equivalent.



Scrum agile avoids pretty much all the overhead you've described. There are upsides and downsides to the lack of up front planning on agile.

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Uber Geek


  # 2198914 15-Mar-2019 17:25
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When I talk about methodologies and process engineering I often use the following analogy.

Lets imagine its the 1700s and one needs to sail around the world. One builds a special kind of ocean going ship - lets say called “Endeavour”. The ship is purpose built to do everything that needs to be done on a ‘large expedition’. Things like cross large oceans, feed people for months on end, navigate uncharted waters, be repaired where there are no facilities and perform science experiments. It requires a specially trained crew to use it.

Now lets say one is a fishmonger in a small village. Every day one gets in ones row boat, sails out into the harbour where the water is nice and calm and throws the nets out to catch the days fish.

Now, we go back to our Endeavour, it can sail into the same harbour, the sails can be removed, and oars put out, the crew can be down-scaled to one or two people, and fishing nets can be used to catch fish.

But I would ask the question, could the fishmonger in his sailing boat, sail around the world for years on end, with all the food and water required, all of the equipment and spares to make repairs, and all of the equipment and skills to successfuly navigate.

The moral of the story is one can scale an enterprise methodology down, but you cannot scale a business process up. And that means, adding more row-boats doesnt create a sailing ship.

I would also suggest that the leval of voyage planning done likely wont make much of a difference to the ‘capability’ of the rowing boat in being sailed around the world.

The role of a methodologist is to help one build many sailing ships of all different kinds and to show how they can be adapted (scaled down or up) to suite the objectives of the tasks to be perormed.




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