Justified in getting a Chorus line check with these VDSL errors?

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On2or3wheels

202 posts

Master Geek

#312326 6-Apr-2024 14:44

Hi all,

Something suddenly happened to my VDSL line just over 1 month ago. I got back from holiday & discovered it was extremely slow, around 22Mb instead of 57-60Mb (as reported by both the Fritz & a speed test).
Turning the Fritz off/on didn't solve it, however forcing a re-sync through the "Interference Resistance Settings" under the Line Setting tab got me back to full speed.

Over the next 24hrs however the line-speed just kept incrementally dropping again. After a few days the download speed was slower than the upload speed.
Again a re-sync gets me back to full speed.

I've had a read through the VDSL tuning page here on Geekzone & compared the FritzBox diagnostic screen shots.
It looks to me like line issues, noise maybe looking at the spectrum.

Below are some screen shots from the Fritz. I reset it last night with the "Interference Resistance Settings" in the middle for more stability & it 1st connected at 47Mb.
By this morning it's down to 30Mb & dropping. The Fritz reports errors as well. The funny thing is after a reset I don't get the errors at full speed.

My line attenuation is extremely high I believe & my signal to noise is bad. Usually my signal to noise ratio is 6/6 or 5/6 which is worse, but it's higher at the moment due to my "Interference Resistance Settings".
One day I was getting 1800 uncorrected DTU errors per minute for a while!

I've had this line since the early days of VDSL & since VDSL 2 it's been a consistent 62Mb connection.

2Degrees are extremely reluctant to pass this on to Chorus for a check of the line, as they think Chorus will come back & charge them for finding no problems.

Is there anyone here that can advise if the results above look like a bad line? I assumed unless the problem is in my house 2D would be totally justified in getting Chorus to have a look with these results?
2D advise that the Chorus website says 30Mb is expected in my area, that's partly why they don't want to push Chorus.

Yes I should be on fibre :) & I've now requested it but haven't had the scoping call yet so it could be a while away.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks

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164 posts

Master Geek

Subscriber

#3215108 6-Apr-2024 16:27

The attenuation shouldn't have gone up unless miraculously the exchange/cabinet or your house has moved. The line may be corroded hence why the attenuation has gone up and you've been experiencing drops. I don't know why 2degrees won't place a fault for you because if there is a NFF fee or any other charges, I believe they invoice you what they get charged by Chorus.

I would ask them to do a prequal on the address and check what the attenuation is, and/or get them to do a LQD (Line Quality Diagnosis) via Assure and see if the throughput matches what you see on your router. From my experience, this does look to be faultable, but getting them to do those checks should make it clearer.

MichaelNZ

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Integrity Tech Solutions

#3215113 6-Apr-2024 16:34

The speed drop sucks and you may well have a problem.

But I also get where 2degrees is coming from. If Chorus sends out a tech and they don't find a fault there is a charge and they get caught between a rock and hard place where they will end up loosing more then they would make in yearly profit on the service.

Furthermore, at 30Mbps you are getting within the expected range for a distance of almost 600m.

The next step is to get a line test. This is done remotely and costs nothing and is generally the next step anyway. If a fault is found at this point they may be more amenable.

But if not and you still want to get a Chorus tech out then I suggest moving your service to another provider who will be more able to cater to your needs and clearly agreeing you will meet any charges incurred whether you like the result or not.

WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers

RunningMan

8965 posts

Uber Geek

#3215114 6-Apr-2024 16:40

On2or3wheels:

Yes I should be on fibre :) & I've now requested it but haven't had the scoping call yet so it could be a while away.

I'd suggest putting your efforts into this rather than VDSL - end result will be so much better, even on a 50/10 plan.

MrGadget

193 posts

Master Geek

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#3215115 6-Apr-2024 16:41

Well, that cost will be passed on to you in a “no fault found” situation, so your judgement call here. You can force the issue and request a fault tech if you feel it’s adequate.
The sudden change is the odd part here. It may well be within “normal range”, however you should not expect sudden and substantial drops in speed.

On2or3wheels

202 posts

Master Geek

#3215116 6-Apr-2024 16:47

Thanks Chills & Michael,

Sorry I missed in my original post that 2D ran a line test for 24 hrs & confirmed the high attenuation, but were still reluctant to contact Chorus.
I'm just surprised that there doesn't appear to be some quality figures that the line must achieve so 2D would feel comfortable getting Chorus to look.

On2or3wheels

202 posts

Master Geek

#3215117 6-Apr-2024 16:52

RunningMan:

I'd suggest putting your efforts into this rather than VDSL - end result will be so much better, even on a 50/10 plan.

Yes just hoping it will hold together for that long. The other half works from home 50% of the time so it needs to work.

MichaelNZ

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Integrity Tech Solutions

#3215119 6-Apr-2024 16:57

On2or3wheels:

Sorry I missed in my original post that 2D ran a line test for 24 hrs & confirmed the high attenuation, but were still reluctant to contact Chorus.
I'm just surprised that there doesn't appear to be some quality figures that the line must achieve so 2D would feel comfortable getting Chorus to look.

There isn't any "quality figures" for VDSL.

I am on VDSL and my connect speed is circa 104Mbps and speed test at 93Mbps. This is with a cable run of around 400m.

I have connected up clients (of the ISP I work for) to VDSL who were right at the edge - literally the last house in VDSL coverage - and they were sub-10Mbps.

Thinking of clients with cable runs in the region your screenshot stated they are getting upper-20Mbps on speed test so that would be low 30's connect.

In regards to Chorus they are a network company, not a customer services one. The end user support is for the RSP and this is limited to the scope they operate within. So the relationship between them and RSP's is not like going to a retail store and asking for tech support for the gadget you bought. That is not how it works. I have given you the best suggestion I have.

Hopefully your area will be enabled for UFB. UFB is a whole different thing and it either works or it doesn't - black and white. Its not like xDSL which is mostly a spectrum of how well or not it works.

If I had my way xDSL would be dumped as a product and it would be just fibre. This would make things a lot easier for me (as the Systems and Networks Admin) and the clients. I live in hope but its a long way away yet.

WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers

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On2or3wheels

202 posts

Master Geek

#3215129 6-Apr-2024 17:23

MichaelNZ:

There isn't any "quality figures" for VDSL.

I just meant line quality, not specific to VDSL.
For instance if I still had a landline I might be able to hear the noise or crackling!!

Of course UFB is better but you can't blame someone for still being on VDSL if it's worked for them.
It's not going to be the easiest install here, not to mention the time off work.

MaxineN

Max
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#3215131 6-Apr-2024 17:32

On2or3wheels:

Thanks Chills & Michael,

Sorry I missed in my original post that 2D ran a line test for 24 hrs & confirmed the high attenuation, but were still reluctant to contact Chorus.
I'm just surprised that there doesn't appear to be some quality figures that the line must achieve so 2D would feel comfortable getting Chorus to look.

Looking at SPM would give the reps 6 weeks of historical data. Which would absolutely show the drop in line speed.

Even Chorus would pull historical Wireline data. I'd push for the fault to be logged.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

MichaelNZ

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#3215133 6-Apr-2024 17:43

On2or3wheels:

Of course UFB is better but you can't blame someone for still being on VDSL if it's worked for them.
It's not going to be the easiest install here, not to mention the time off work.

I had assumed by you being on VDSL it was the best option for your address.

If you can have UFB then go and do whatever you need to switch.

WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers

MrGadget

193 posts

Master Geek

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#3215142 6-Apr-2024 18:31

MichaelNZ:
On2or3wheels:

Of course UFB is better but you can't blame someone for still being on VDSL if it's worked for them.
It's not going to be the easiest install here, not to mention the time off work.

I had assumed by you being on VDSL it was the best option for your address.

If you can have UFB then go and do whatever you need to switch.

100%. Bite that bullet.
The government subsidies will end and install won’t be free for much longer.

chrisvp

22 posts

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2degrees

#3215300 7-Apr-2024 15:27

Hi touch base (DM) and I'll see why 2degrees is hesitant to raise a fault with Chorus (I'm curious). But in saying that, go for fibre :) It's a game changer (as in, you forget you have internet, it just works). Copper is an old network and support is just not where it used to be.

Regards,
Chris

richms

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#3215302 7-Apr-2024 15:35

If you are in a fibre area, then that is the solution for any copper fault. I can see why they don't want to put any effort into this when a reliable network that is not corroding into dust is sitting there for you to use.

IMO any fault ticket to chorus on a copper connection in a fibre are should just be closed with "wont fix".

Richard rich.ms

Chills

164 posts

Master Geek

Subscriber

#3215303 7-Apr-2024 15:41

richms:

IMO any fault ticket to chorus on a copper connection in a fibre are should just be closed with "wont fix".

It has almost reached this point, I know Chorus won't accept any orders for Copper if the end user is in a Fibre Area.

MaxineN

Max
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#3215325 7-Apr-2024 17:30

Chills:

richms:

IMO any fault ticket to chorus on a copper connection in a fibre are should just be closed with "wont fix".

It has almost reached this point, I know Chorus won't accept any orders for Copper if the end user is in a Fibre Area.

The problem is consents + landscaping issues. Seen this issue a few times when FWA(mostly FWA but sometimes with DSL) isn't suitable anymore > the moment I say go to UFB it's either consents issue or landscaping issues(I.E they don't want their nice driveway cut up or their garden dug).

Can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink it kind of situation. But also sometimes it's out of their control (landlord keeps saying no or a third party in a MDU).

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

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