Credit card charged without notification.

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5695 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1745172 21-Mar-2017 12:44

1101:
This is why I never give my CC details on so called free trials.

If truely free , they simply do not require any CC details .
Asking for CC for trials is a scam. Simple as that. Why the need for a payment method on a free trial.
Because they bet that many will forget & let it rollover into autopayments

2 very large AV Software companies were actually prosecuted in the US for the sneaky way they did autopayments on CC's

At the end of the day, you gave them your CC when signing up to Lightbox

Another POV - I don't see it as a scam at all. It's an offer from a business. Businesses need customers generating profit to survive

If you don't like the offer no one is forcing you to put your credit card in

There will certainly be a lot of "free trial offers" you'll not be able to take advantage of without putting a CC in

Personally I signup then cancel immediately, my free offer runs until it's over

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1745179 21-Mar-2017 13:31

allio:
Geekzone engages in some serious victim blaming when it involves local businesses behaving shadily.

I fully agree with you. I got caught out too, also following a six month trial with Bigpipe. I knew the six months was coming up and was fully intending to cancel before it rolled over, but I was certain that I'd receive an email reminder beforehand. When I didn't I figured I might have got my dates wrong and must have had an extra month. A few days later I saw the charge on my credit card statement.

I don't think Lightbox is doing anything illegal, because I'm sure it was in the terms and conditions I agreed to when I activated my account. I do however think it's a bit crummy. Certainly the experience left me without any goodwill towards the service and I definitely won't sign up for it again, no matter what improvements they make.

It wouldn't be hard for them to send that email. They choose not to because they figure some people won't notice and will unintentionally slide into a paying subscription. They're allowed to do that, but I'm allowed to not like it.

I disagree.

What geekzone sees a lot of, is "I agreed to something, and now I don't like it". To refer to these people as victims is more than a stretch.
A provider shouldn't have to babysit its customers.

I have several companies charge my card on a regular basis, the majority of them don't notify me before or after.

NzBeagle

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1745184 21-Mar-2017 13:46

andrewNZ:
allio:

Geekzone engages in some serious victim blaming when it involves local businesses behaving shadily.

I fully agree with you. I got caught out too, also following a six month trial with Bigpipe. I knew the six months was coming up and was fully intending to cancel before it rolled over, but I was certain that I'd receive an email reminder beforehand. When I didn't I figured I might have got my dates wrong and must have had an extra month. A few days later I saw the charge on my credit card statement.

I don't think Lightbox is doing anything illegal, because I'm sure it was in the terms and conditions I agreed to when I activated my account. I do however think it's a bit crummy. Certainly the experience left me without any goodwill towards the service and I definitely won't sign up for it again, no matter what improvements they make.

It wouldn't be hard for them to send that email. They choose not to because they figure some people won't notice and will unintentionally slide into a paying subscription. They're allowed to do that, but I'm allowed to not like it.

I disagree.

What geekzone sees a lot of, is "I agreed to something, and now I don't like it". To refer to these people as victims is more than a stretch.
A provider shouldn't have to babysit its customers.

I have several companies charge my card on a regular basis, the majority of them don't notify me before or after.

I only half agree with you, in that yes, if you make a mistake own it, but it's not a big ask for companies to consider their customers. Bigpipe, for example, sends notification of payment. In fact, a number of other companies also do this, at least this allows the customer to be aware that $X has left their accounts.

In this example, I would've accepted the 1 month extra I paid by mistake and moved on. 3 months is a little tougher. In saying that I'm usually checking my balances each pay and would also note there.

scuwp

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1745186 21-Mar-2017 13:49

Another example of blaming someone else for own failings. Sorry I don't think it should be up to companies to babysit their customers. It's not deceptive, its a way for companies to get people to try their product and hopefully carry on as a paying customer. I am sure it was abundantly clear in the conditions that unless you cancelled beforehand the subscription would roll over (why else would they ask for your credit card details).

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#1745188 21-Mar-2017 13:57

nathan:

that's the way subscription services work, you should've have cancelled the account. Some providers like this let you cancel immediately and continue using the service for the duration, some don't.

I agree that it is the customers responsibility . However, normally it is just good ol customer service to warn a customer though prior to beginning to charge, in this type of situation after a free trial is up. As these systems are likely automated, it would have been simple to set it up so it would do this. I am pretty sure that some similar subscription services I have signed up to in the past that offered a free initial trial period, did warn me. What would be the reason not to warn customers. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some regulation introduced around this, because I see this type of complaint quite a bit, and it is a newish issue with online subscriptions.

Guv

94 posts

Master Geek

#1745189 21-Mar-2017 13:58

I had a 6 month free subscription code which disappeared when I canceled the sub. So I never used it again.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#1745190 21-Mar-2017 13:58

nathan:

Personally I signup then cancel immediately, my free offer runs until it's over

They don't all do this. Some will cancel the account as soon as you cancel it, and not allow you to use the rest of the free trial.

AliExpress

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allio

885 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1745194 21-Mar-2017 14:17

andrewNZ:

What geekzone sees a lot of, is "I agreed to something, and now I don't like it". To refer to these people as victims is more than a stretch.
A provider shouldn't have to babysit its customers.

I have several companies charge my card on a regular basis, the majority of them don't notify me before or after.

You call it "babysitting customers", I call it "acting in good faith". Obviously we just have different expectations of the companies we do business with. As this particular behaviour bothers me, I won't give Lightbox my business. No biggie.

PaulBags

809 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1745199 21-Mar-2017 14:28

This discussion reminds me of consent issues. Is it customers fault they said yes six months ago and then forgot, or companies fault for not checking? My concept of informed continuous consent says the latter. Remember, you can refuse the tea once it's been made, and more importantly no-one wants tea while they're asleep.

Ge0rge

2052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1745327 21-Mar-2017 19:34

If you've made tea for someone and they don't want it, wake me up - I'll have the tea! ;)

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1745330 21-Mar-2017 19:52

It's not a free trial.
It's getting six months free of a service which normally you pay for.

The difference is the expectation that you will continue with the service after the free period unless you tell them otherwise.

Afaik Bigpipe never promoted it as a free trial, they promoted it as 6 months free. I know because a friend was already a lightbox subscriber and able to apply th 6 month voucher to their already existing account, if it was an free trial, they wouldn't have been allowed to do that

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1745332 21-Mar-2017 19:54

allio:
andrewNZ:

What geekzone sees a lot of, is "I agreed to something, and now I don't like it". To refer to these people as victims is more than a stretch.
A provider shouldn't have to babysit its customers.

I have several companies charge my card on a regular basis, the majority of them don't notify me before or after.

You call it "babysitting customers", I call it "acting in good faith". Obviously we just have different expectations of the companies we do business with. As this particular behaviour bothers me, I won't give Lightbox my business. No biggie.

Almost all streaming services do this - including Netflix, Spotify. Have you cancelled with them too?

blakamin

4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1745348 21-Mar-2017 20:07

NonprayingMantis:
allio:

andrewNZ:

What geekzone sees a lot of, is "I agreed to something, and now I don't like it". To refer to these people as victims is more than a stretch.
A provider shouldn't have to babysit its customers.

I have several companies charge my card on a regular basis, the majority of them don't notify me before or after.

You call it "babysitting customers", I call it "acting in good faith". Obviously we just have different expectations of the companies we do business with. As this particular behaviour bothers me, I won't give Lightbox my business. No biggie.

Almost all streaming services do this - including Netflix, Spotify. Have you cancelled with them too?

In fact, I haven't come across one that doesn't... Unless it's a free service like catch-up TV, BBC, etc

Qello, Netflix, Amazon, Stan, Spotify, Google Play Music, the list goes on. Hell, even newspapers sites, if there's a fee to it, it will automatically start after any trial.

That's what "subscription" means in "subscription service". :D

PaulBags

809 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1745467 21-Mar-2017 23:04

I disagree that that's what subscription means. Subscription means you have a service in intervals and/or receive goods at intervals, subscription doesn't determine payment method. National geographic for example, pay for a years deliveries and have to confirm payment to continue. Broadband is a subscription, and can be paid by AP or in arrears. Prepay and account mobile plans are both subscribed services.

Subscription doesn't imply direct debit, nor is it constrained to it.

Michaelfjs

70 posts

Master Geek

#1745644 22-Mar-2017 11:14

Lightbox Terms and conditions doesn't explicitly state they will charge you after the voucher has expired.

https://www.lightbox.co.nz/pages/terms

Free Trials and Promotions

Lightbox may offer a free trial to new customers or through the use of a promotional code. Free trials are limited to one per customer.
To take advantage of a free trial, you need to create an Account and subscribe by entering your debit/credit card details.
The subscription will automatically renew after the expiry of the trial period, unless you decide to end your subscription before the expiry date.

The T&C referring to the terms "Free Trial" and "Promotion", not a voucher. The word voucher is not mentioned anywhere in their terms and conditions.

The Redeem voucher page doesn't give any indication that you will be charged after the voucher expires.

https://www.lightbox.co.nz/register/redeem

And guess what, back in 2014, when I signed up for a free trial when LB first started, I did get an email saying my Trial was about to end. So go figure.

"As promised, this is a reminder that your free 30-day trial is about to end.

If you'd like to cancel your Lightbox subscription, you'll need to log in to your account and unsubscribe. Your credit card details will be erased when your subscription expires, but your other account details will be saved, in case you change your mind.

If you'd like to continue using Lightbox, you don't need to do anything. Once your trial is up on September 28, 2014, the credit card you submitted when you signed up will automatically be charged for your next 30 days. (You can view details of your next billing date on the Subscription tab.)

We hope you've enjoyed having Lightbox in your life. We'll keeping adding new seasons and shows to our line-up, and dusting off hidden gems from our vaults, so check back in for some sweet surprises.

Thanks for giving Lightbox a try. "

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