Building a new house - IC-F rated LED downlights the way to go?

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timmmay

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#749992 24-Jan-2013 08:39

Suggest you consider an integrated heat recovery ventilation and heating system for the whole house. That way you can run just the ventilation, just the heating, and choose which rooms it gets to. I have two heat pumps in my house, the lounge and the kitchen, but our bedroom doesn't get air directly so it can get pretty warm/cool in there. Or just have a standalone heat pump and a ventilation system to distribute the heat. There are systems that aren't super expensive, but you'll need a specialist.

Cutting huge holes for ventilation ducts in the ceiling doesn't seem sensible to me either, heat goes out them in winter. Still, not many other options.

Skolink

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#749997 24-Jan-2013 08:50

timmmay:
Skolink: If we had a 4x5m room with R4 ceiling insulation, four sealed downlights with 100mm cutout, assuming the downlight had an insluation value of only R0.1, then the overall insulation would be R3.77 would it not? A 6% increase in heat loss.

Perhaps more realistically though, if the downlights have a cutout of 80mm, and an R value of R0.5, then that is an overall value of R3.97, a 0.7% increase in heat loss.

That's incorrect. Take a look at the consumer chart I posted on an earlier page. Small gaps in insulation make a huge different to the effectiveness. The lighting industry calls downlights "chimneys".

As Niel has already pointed out, the Consumer chart is for downlights with holes in them. My calculations are for sealed downlights (ie LED downlights) which allow no airflow from the room to the roof space.

Skolink

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#749998 24-Jan-2013 08:54

wallop: I saw the switch lighting as well. Lighting Plus sell them. Expensive though $185. Currently on special at $138. If they have a 50% off sale I might try some.

The SL111 or SL113? Does that price include the driver?

timmmay

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#750010 24-Jan-2013 09:28

Skolink: As Niel has already pointed out, the Consumer chart is for downlights with holes in them. My calculations are for sealed downlights (ie LED downlights) which allow no airflow from the room to the roof space.

I understand that, though CA the rated downlights may have been closed, they don't say. My point is a sealed downlight is better than a downlight that's unsealed in that it stops drafts, it's still uninsulated. Even small gaps in insulation can cause large amounts of heat loss.

wallop

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#750033 24-Jan-2013 10:11

Skolink:
wallop: I saw the switch lighting as well. Lighting Plus sell them. Expensive though $185. Currently on special at $138. If they have a 50% off sale I might try some.

The SL111 or SL113? Does that price include the driver?

[url]http://www.lightingplus.co.nz/lighting/led-lighting/d-lightz-led-recessed-downlight.html[url/]

langers1972

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#750042 24-Jan-2013 10:28

One thing troubling me about a lot of these recessed IC rated down lights is that the LED is non replaceable so, in effect if it blows it's a complete replacement unit. Anyone else share my concerns or have some words of wisdom?

CYaBro

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#750069 24-Jan-2013 11:08

langers1972: One thing troubling me about a lot of these recessed IC rated down lights is that the LED is non replaceable so, in effect if it blows it's a complete replacement unit. Anyone else share my concerns or have some words of wisdom?

Correct however if they are made with a decent brand of LED chip then they should last 15 years apparently.

The biggest killer of LED chips is heat so I wouldn't trust those closed in units from Lighting Plus.
The LED fittings I got from Wattsaver have a massive heatsink on them, similar to a heatsink for an Intel CPU but much taller.

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timmmay

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#750070 24-Jan-2013 11:11

LED lights last years, replacement isn't that difficult, but does require an electrician. LED downlights are designed to live under insulation for years. If they fail sooner than expected you take them back for replacement under consumer guarantees.

langers1972

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#751265 26-Jan-2013 18:31

One final query, is the UK F rating same as IC-F as I saw these Phillips downlights on eBay and I need eight http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com.au/viewitem?itemId=121026420499&index=10&nav=SEARCH&nid=22104226227

CYaBro

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#751309 26-Jan-2013 21:28

timmmay: LED lights last years, replacement isn't that difficult, but does require an electrician. LED downlights are designed to live under insulation for years. If they fail sooner than expected you take them back for replacement under consumer guarantees.

What is the life of an LED?
Does anyone actually know for sure yet?
I've seen 'around 15 years' mentioned all over the place but how accurate would that be?
How long would the CGA cover you for on something that costs less than $100?

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

Niel

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#751314 26-Jan-2013 21:44

The first ViriBright LED bulbs I got from Bunnings are now close to 1 year old, the youngest about 3 months. There were infant failures of 10%, all within a couple of weeks of use, but easily exchanged. With my usage of at least 5h per day the payback is 6 months so I do not care actual life beyond that. The brand name incandescents that the builder supplied were failing on average one per month.

Keep your receipts and write on them where you have installed the specific one. I've seen these lights with permanently fitted LEDs have a warranty period of 2-5 years printed on the box, so that is how long the warranty must be good for. Perhaps keep one box as proof and put the receipts in it. I think you will be hard pressed with the CGA over 1 year when it comes to a $20 bulb, better luck with a $150 fitting.

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mattwnz

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#751347 26-Jan-2013 22:48

wallop:
Skolink:
wallop: I saw the switch lighting as well. Lighting Plus sell them. Expensive though $185. Currently on special at $138. If they have a 50% off sale I might try some.

The SL111 or SL113? Does that price include the driver?

[url]http://www.lightingplus.co.nz/lighting/led-lighting/d-lightz-led-recessed-downlight.html[url/]

I wonder what the cost and trade price of these things are. A pity the surround on the light is so fugly and wide, and doesn't look like it comes in other finshes such as chrome.. Also a non replaceable bulb??? So you have to replace the entire fitting, when it blows , and it only has a 3 and 5 year warranty so it may not last longer than that. Replacing the fitting isn't good beucase odds are you won't find a fitting that will fit the hole you have made, as that looks alot bigger than a standard recessed halogon fitting. Also if one blows, you have to find another light identical, otherwise it will not match. Otherise you have to buy a lot of spares when you buy the initial ones to make sure that in the future they will match. Surely they could have made one with a replacable bulb, and I though under the NZ building code that fitting like lights fittings had to be designed to last a minimum period of time.

mattwnz

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#751348 26-Jan-2013 22:51

Niel: I think you will be hard pressed with the CGA over 1 year when it comes to a $20 bulb, better luck with a $150 fitting.

I don't know, as it will be considered a premium value bulb. eg. Compare the price of a $1 light bulb, vs a $20 bulb, both which produce light, you would expect the $20 to last a lot longer under the CGA. $20 for a bulb isn't cheap. Sure you get the payoff with less power usage, but not sure if that is taken into consideration with the CGA.

Niel

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#751394 27-Jan-2013 07:34

mattwnz:
Niel: I think you will be hard pressed with the CGA over 1 year when it comes to a $20 bulb, better luck with a $150 fitting.

I don't know, as it will be considered a premium value bulb. eg. Compare the price of a $1 light bulb, vs a $20 bulb, both which produce light, you would expect the $20 to last a lot longer under the CGA. $20 for a bulb isn't cheap. Sure you get the payoff with less power usage, but not sure if that is taken into consideration with the CGA.

What I mean is probably not 5-10 years as you theoretically should. Remember with the CGA you likely deal with a non-technical person that would say a light bulb lasts only a couple of years. An $80 bulb might be a different story.

The life rating on an LED is not real life use. It is at a constant temperature and a few other conditions. It is just marketing talk, like TVs with a 30 000:1 contrast ratio. Your eye can see only about 100:1, and even military control panels are only around 5:1 to 10:1.

You can never have enough Volvos!

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