LED Lighting

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#605075 4-Apr-2012 14:13

Downlights are a really bad plan for energy efficiency. They let so much heat out the power saved by using LED over incandescent is almost irrelevant. If you put eight downlights in a room, even sealed downlights, you'll need to put 2-3 times more heat into the room to keep it a comfortable temperature. That's up to triple the energy costs.

Those downlights don't have an obvious rating for insulation. eg CA = closed abutted, meaning they're mostly closed, and insulation can go right up to them. You can't insulate over standard downlights, and any light you can't insulate over is a bad thing. Insulating over standard downlights is a fire risk and may invalidate your insurance.

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#605100 4-Apr-2012 14:54

timmmay: Downlights are a really bad plan for energy efficiency.

I agree entirely. I am on a quest to find LED downlights rated IC-F (formerly known as F-hat or class F). Or even some on-ceiling flat LED lights. I don't really have the time to build something myself.

Niel

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#605238 4-Apr-2012 18:48

I do not have the info with me, but as of sometime May all light fittings need to comply with new standards/ratings to ensure no fire risk. Will find and post the details if I remember.

Regarding heat loss through fittings, with a new moderm home the trapped heat/humidity is more of an issue than the heat loss. Heat loss is only an issue in older homes with less insulation, or if you have snow, or poor house design/position (including building in a valley or under tree cover).

A friend at work designed his own house in Waitakere, Auckland. His good design means he does not need any heating at all, in Winter at times he actually needs cooling.

You do not want your house sealed, you want it to breath.

You can never have enough Volvos!

timmmay

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#605243 4-Apr-2012 18:51

Ventilation is definitely important, and newer houses are much warmer than old ones. My Dad's house is ten years old and it needs some heating in winter. Heat doesn't magically appear.

Jaxson

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#605257 4-Apr-2012 19:31

Yeah I'd be careful about sitting too far in any one camp. You need heating, ventilation and insulation and usually two work fine together, but not the third.

Yes you want ventilation, but too much means you're not gaining anything and in fact your heat is blowing out of the building.

And yes you want to minimise heat losses, but a sealed insulated shipping container box is no place to live. Heat loss is an issue anywhere you have a difference in temperature between inside and outside.

CYaBro

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#614662 24-Apr-2012 23:41

I'm also looking at LED lights for our new house and found these guys:
www.wattsaver.com.au

Anybody by chance bought anything from them a nd would like to share any details?

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

networkn

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#614663 24-Apr-2012 23:47

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/switch-lighting-unveils-100w-equivalent-led-bulb/6426

These bulbs look amazing, I am considering importing a few to see how they go in a living area.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

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#614736 25-Apr-2012 08:10

I have just bought four of these lights to replace halogens in my parents' kitchen, which I will install in a couple of weeks. I've tested one in my hand and it is fairly bright, but certainly not as bright as a 50W halogen. I think the claimed 700 lumen is an exaggeration - I'm guessing it's theoretical and they never actually measured it. More info on the Ecobob forums.

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#614738 25-Apr-2012 08:27

CYaBro: I'm also looking at LED lights for our new house and found these guys:
www.wattsaver.com.au

Anybody by chance bought anything from them a nd would like to share any details?

networkn: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/switch-lighting-unveils-100w-equivalent-led-bulb/6426

These bulbs look amazing, I am considering importing a few to see how they go in a living area.

Please let us know if you manage to get pricing.

Niel

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#614768 25-Apr-2012 09:24

I got this E27 delivered yesterday: http://www.ebay.com/itm/330614959123
We have low cost recessed light fittings. Compared next to a 100W incandescent the amount of light is roughly similar but you get a good spot rather than scattering to the walls (i.e. kind of similar amount of light but directed rather than spread). I want to get them for the passage where the kids keep on leaving 4 lights on, and their bedrooms where they leave 2 lights on. My son noticed the trial first saying it looks brighter but that is because it made a spot on the floor. The walls however is darker as you do not get the scatter from the recessed fitting reflector.

In reality you need about 18W omnidirectional to get the same as a 100W incandescent, or 10W if you are fine with a spot type of lamp.

Our living space has 3m stud height where the spot will get diffused more, and it is a nice bright light good for reading (better than the incandescent).

The one I got stays cool and tomorrow I can test the actual power consumption to confirm it is 9W. But I took it apart and it needs some work. Well constructed, but the LED board is stuck to the heat sink with heat sink compound instead of screwed down despite there are threaded holes in the right place for screwing it down. I'll add some screws. At least it is very easy to get to the LEDs, just remove a spring clip and the lens comes out exposing the PCB.

The design is safe, no issues there. You have to break it open to get to the power supply (which I did not do) so no possible exposed mains.

The other option I'm considering is making low voltage fittings with a 20W COB LED and fanless heat sink. Light is spread well, you have control over the quality of power supply (which is the weak point regarding life), and you have control over assembly quality. A COB spreads about 140 degrees so is suitable for ambient lighting. Cost however is around US$45 for 20W LED + HS and then you still need a power supply.

You can never have enough Volvos!

networkn

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#614779 25-Apr-2012 09:57

neiil, nice report. It's the only thing holding me back and lack of true 100+w equivalents is the small lighting area reported, I don't want spots, I want general light. Also those ones you bought look very ugly for general residential lights.

mattk

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#614783 25-Apr-2012 10:06

Local and cheap:

lightpower.co.nz

networkn

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#614787 25-Apr-2012 10:19

mattK are the links on the site to the middle bar with kitchens, bathrooms, bedrooms and living rooms working for you ? You can click the links they don't do anything for me, I was looking for what they had to say about living areas.

mattk

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#614789 25-Apr-2012 10:30

Hiya!

Negative - not working for me either. I've bought stuff from here before though and it generally turns up the next day. Gets couriered from Silverdale and I know the owner has spent a lot of time researching everything he stocks. All my commonly used lights are LED now and the rest are CFL, my power bill was ~$60/mth with a PC running 24/7 prior to getting married.... don't ask what it is now!

CYaBro

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#614791 25-Apr-2012 10:33

Skolink:
CYaBro: I'm also looking at LED lights for our new house and found these guys:
www.wattsaver.com.au

Anybody by chance bought anything from them a nd would like to share any details?

networkn: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/switch-lighting-unveils-100w-equivalent-led-bulb/6426

These bulbs look amazing, I am considering importing a few to see how they go in a living area.

Please let us know if you manage to get pricing.

Wattsaver has pricing on their site in aus$.
I'm looking at led fittings not just replacement bulbs and the pricing looks ok for the fittings.
Just waiting for an email to see what sort of discount they give for a house lot.
They also said that they have some being fitted in Auckland in a week or two so could probably organise for me to go and see them working.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

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