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quickymart
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  #442175 21-Feb-2011 23:32
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Unlimited free national traffic?

You're dreaming.

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kyhwana2
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  #442176 21-Feb-2011 23:32
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Zeon:
Why does the traffic need to be symmetric?


Because that's how peering works, if it's asymmetrical, it's called "buying transit". That is, the little guy pays the big guy to carry their traffic.

Zeon
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  #442177 21-Feb-2011 23:52
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Beccara: I believe the argument Telecom used was based around "Why should we pay to carrier data from Southland to Auckland and hand it over to another party for free when we get nothing from them"

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, The great depeering was a while ago 


You do realize they are charging their customers to access that content lol? If anything the content provider is doing them a favour as rather than having to access it internationally they just need to get transit to Auckland. The way it should be is for content providers to peer at major IXes and the Telecom's companies can access them from there. E.g. in Europe we may choose a provider who offers free traffic to Frankfurt and Amsterdam IXes which have literally thousands of peers. Same deal for those on ISPs who don't peer there, they can access our US node (although the difference is bandwidth costs in Europe for NZ for non peered traffic is pretty different so not such a compelling case). 




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Beccara
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  #442178 22-Feb-2011 00:03
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What content? Telecom has CDN nodes from the major CDN's. Thats the point they made, Peering was mostly a one-way street for them, Telecom serving out alot of traffic and getting little in return.




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Ragnor
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  #442185 22-Feb-2011 00:51
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Telstraclear and Telecom de-peered from APE and WIX in 2004, it was almost borderline collusion. They knew with their combined market power/share they could get away with charging both ends for service (customer end, and all other hosting companies and isp's).

Conveniently they still had peering between each other, the idea was to force all hosting companies and other ISP's to purchase interconnection from at least one one of them.  It worked well they generated a whole bunch of new revenue out of nowhere.

If maketshare was more evenly split between major ISP's Telecom and Telstraclear would not be able to get away without domestic peering at APE/WIX.

Telecom and Telstraclear aren't able to force the non customer end (hosting companies and other ISP's) overseas to pay for transit, they actually peer at major IX's in LA and San Jose in a nice double standard.

The fact that TVNZ and TV3 ondemand content was delivered from LA/SJ for several years for Telecom and Telstraclear highlighted the farce.  Telecom actually peered temporarily for the Olympics. Eventually Telecom deciding to peer with FX Networks so the pressure from TVNZ, TV3 and CityLink did have an effect.

Take a look at Scandinavia for forward thinking peering, take a look at the US for corrupt plutocracy in action.

UFB is going to stir things up nicely imo.




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  #442187 22-Feb-2011 01:18
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Beccara: What content? Telecom has CDN nodes from the major CDN's. Thats the point they made, Peering was mostly a one-way street for them, Telecom serving out alot of traffic and getting little in return.


Classic example: TVNZ ondemand (pre Telecom - FX Networks peering)

Paying customer on Telecom wants to use TVNZ ondemand, so yes it is Telecom's customer that is requesting content and the host that is serving content Telecom's customers want.

It's doesn't make sense for a host to have to pay for transit with every ISP individually hence why peering exchanges existed in the first place!

The way it's supposed to work is host pays for transit to peering exchange ISP pays for transit to peering exchange WIN/WIN.  It doesn't matter if traffic is asymmetric... host pays for it's own transit to the IX, Telecom pays for it's transit to the IX.

What we had (and still have pretty much) is two ISP's using monopoly/oligopoly market power to force all hosts and other ISP's to pay for transit from them directly.








Regs
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  #442191 22-Feb-2011 02:03
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imagine if we had a distance charging model. say a user in invercargill wanted to watch a IPTV station peering at APE. should that invercargill user pay 100x more than a user that is based in auckland? someone has to pay for all that fibre and copper and switching between APE and invercargill...

(nb: there is already some extra cost loading on rural adsl connections)

the further away you are from a power generation facility, the more you pay for your electricity.

there is always a 'cost' involved with something - it is never 'free'.






Beccara
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  #442192 22-Feb-2011 02:07
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Never said I agree'ed with them, just that was my memory of what excuse they rolled out :)

If your after Unlimited national then you might be out of luck for true unlimited but depending on where you are you could get a HSNS type service with a true unlimited connection into APE




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

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  #442200 22-Feb-2011 06:15
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revolution488: How hard would it be to get unlimited national bandwith? Because telecom owns most of the lines. I think it would not be that hard.

Someone prove me wrong!


Just sign up with an ISP that offers this. There are ISP's out there that I'm aware of who offer unlimited national traffic on ADSL.

Whether you consider their costs "reasonable" is another question entirely.

Lurch
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  #442363 22-Feb-2011 12:48
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Back in the day on Jetstart (128k/128k) it was unlimited national. Kind of sad back then though having to pay an adsl fee and then a monthly charge on top of that.

Did like it when their system went belly up for a day or two and you would get fullspeed downloads with no caps.

Ahh back in the day :)

mattwnz
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  #442371 22-Feb-2011 13:07
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Nothings unlimited though. You will find that even companies who advertise 'unlimited' will say in their fine print that it isn't 'infinite', so they do have restrictions/limits. But to me unlimited and infinite mean almost the same thing.

b0untypure1
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  #442509 22-Feb-2011 19:23
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there are some unlimited plans around, like telstra (if you can still sign up) but the problem is that it will be managed and not a full speed connection. during peak times it will be slower than the norm. there is always some guy somewhere in a basement doing 3tbs a month.




gz ftw


freitasm
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  #442510 22-Feb-2011 19:25
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TelstraClear doesn't have an unlimited plan... And they don't "manage" any traffic.

Actrix offers an unlimited plan, if you are willing to pay $500+/month for it.




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sbiddle
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  #442520 22-Feb-2011 19:54
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mattwnz: Nothings unlimited though. You will find that even companies who advertise 'unlimited' will say in their fine print that it isn't 'infinite', so they do have restrictions/limits. But to me unlimited and infinite mean almost the same thing.


I'm aware of a number of ISP's offering "unlimited" national traffic that is exactly that, unlimited.


Rubicon
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  #442526 22-Feb-2011 20:26
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freitasm: TelstraClear doesn't have an unlimited plan... And they don't "manage" any traffic.


While I'm not aware of any unlimited residential offerings, Telstra do offer two flat-rate business plans. For example BizBroadband Flat, 2 Mb/s down, 256 kb/s up at $200 + GST per month. These speeds are upper limits, not CIRs. If you could utilise it fully, you could download about 650 GB per month.

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