Help us have a family

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DravidDavid

1907 posts

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#1218966 21-Jan-2015 11:54

jnimmo: I had considered it after hearing that there is a waiting list a few years ago. My better half isn't OK with it though which answers that.

I asked my partner the other night after seeing this thread. I expected she might have an issue with it. But instead, she laughed and said, "I don't own your balls". Haha!

Surely the donors would have to meet strict medical criteria for health, diseases, inherited problems and the like? Not that I really have any health issues myself, but I still wouldn't consider myself an ideal donor somehow.

networkn

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#1219113 21-Jan-2015 13:57

Despite being sympathetic to the OP's plight, for multiple reasons I won't cover here I am unable/unwilling to assist personally, but I did discuss the matter with my wife "out of interest" and was surprised at her reaction which wasn't as opposed as I might have imagined. She did raise a point about how seriously I take the raising of kids and being unable to be directly involved in their upbringing was a deal breaker I hadn't properly considered until that point. Smart woman my wife!

We were blessed with a dismaying ease of getting pregnant both times (I was hoping for considerably more practice) and genuinely feel for those who struggle especially when the parties involved want it and seem prepared to undertake the task of child rearing seriously.

Glassboy

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#1219114 21-Jan-2015 13:58

Mark:
Glassboy:

So you've never heard of X and Y chromosomes?

Heard of yes .. know what it REALLY means ... no clue! Just like I've no clue why you felt the need to say "You misread and obviously don't understand the basic genetic difference between males and females.", it did't seem to add anything at all to the conversation other than make you seem like a pedantic xxx :-)

Well I am pedantic, but actually I've just been surprised by the level of a lot of the comments here since Xmas.

If you really are in the data storage business you really might want to understand DNA a bit better. It is the ultimate data storage medium. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444233104577593291643488120

DravidDavid

1907 posts

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#1219367 21-Jan-2015 18:11

networkn: She did raise a point about how seriously I take the raising of kids and being unable to be directly involved in their upbringing was a deal breaker I hadn't properly considered until that point. Smart woman my wife!

Interesting point. While I love helping out, I think the inner me (who doesn't actually want children at all) would be burning inside wondering how my kid was doing. I wonder how hard it might be to gain custody of the child should the relationship you donated to broke up. Or I wonder if that could be part of a contract signed before donation? It sounds strange and I really don't have a reason as to why I feel that way...But I'd hate for a child with my blood surging through it's veins ending up on the CYF circuit.

networkn

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#1219373 21-Jan-2015 18:24

DravidDavid:
networkn: She did raise a point about how seriously I take the raising of kids and being unable to be directly involved in their upbringing was a deal breaker I hadn't properly considered until that point. Smart woman my wife!

Interesting point. While I love helping out, I think the inner me (who doesn't actually want children at all) would be burning inside wondering how my kid was doing. I wonder how hard it might be to gain custody of the child should the relationship you donated to broke up. Or I wonder if that could be part of a contract signed before donation? It sounds strange and I really don't have a reason as to why I feel that way...But I'd hate for a child with my blood surging through it's veins ending up on the CYF circuit.

Yah I don't think I could stand aside and watch if I thought my kid was being mistreated (For the record I am not suggesting this would happen in the OP's situation) or worse.

The only way I could do it would be by anonymous donation and I would never do it that way anyway.

None of this helps the OP with their situation but it might provide some valued (or not) insight into how potential donors might be thinking.

Aredwood

3885 posts

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#1219619 22-Jan-2015 00:31

Horseychick:
Aredwood:
Glassboy:
Aredwood:
Glassboy:
Aredwood: Being a sperm donor is something I might just consider. As I don't see myself ever getting into a long term relationship due to the stupid relationship property laws. Although I would have to do some research into the laws to do with child support. To make sure I wouldn't be be liable in that respect.
.

You'r showing your ignorance of the law, but then again it sounds like it's just a convenient excuse. See

Property (Relationship) Act 1976, Part 6
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1976/0166/latest/DLM441361.html

Only there is a whole pile of case law that that link doesn't show you. There have been lots of cases where prenup agreements have been challenged in court. And the courts have overrulled them. Therefore you can't completely rely on them. Especially when you see things like this in the paper http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11369381 and http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11319832 When people who have far more money than what I could ever hope to have, still end up with relationship property problems.

The other big reason for what I originality said. Is that I own a house with 600K equity in it. Why should I have to gift 300K or more of that to someone just because they happened to be in a relationship with me for a few years? I bought that house when I was 22 years old. When everyone else my age was living it up, I had to put every spare dollar onto the mortgage. And im still struggling now. But I will be mortgage free approx when Im 40. So don't want to hand over 1/2 of what I have worked for. To someone who couldn't be bothered doing the hard work themselves. Yes I can understand the intention of the law when kids are involved. But it applies in the same way even when there are no kids. Which is the silly part. And when there is 300K at stake - it is definitely worthwhile from an Ex partners point of view to try and challenge a prenup in court. So you would have to budget for lawyers fees to defend it.

Either way it is alot cheaper to not get into a relationship in the first place.

OK so firstly unless you have privileged information about those cases - which you shouldn't be blabbing here - you have no idea if they are directly relevant. Secondly if you don't trust your lawyer creating the appropriate documentation then there are other vehicles such as family trusts that allow you to protect property. Thirdly if you meet the right person (and maybe even had kids) you'd find your outlook would change.

It's pretty cowardly blaming the law for one's misanthropy or misogyny.

You will notice I said" Yes I can understand the intention of the law when kids are involved"

So to expand on that - Assume that I get into a relationship, Have 3 kids. Missus stops working so she can look after kids. Relationship ends after 5 years. She has missed out on years of earnings and career development due to being at home to look after the kids. And she is now a solo mum with 3 kids to support. So the 300K will allow her to support the kids and compensate for lost earnings / career. The law working as intended - This situation I have no problem with.

Now imagine same 5 year relationship but no kids. She has still been able to work / further her career as normal. At the end of the relationship, No kids to look after. So she is no worse off than before the relationship. Yet she is still entitled to 300K in this scenario. What "loss" has she suffered or what "wrong" is the law trying to put right when a "no kids" relationship ends?

As for family trusts - They can easily be busted open by the courts. If the house that is in the trust, is also lived in by the couple. And because alot of relationship property law is based on the outcome of previous court cases. (A judge makes a decision, Other judges have to make the same decision when the facts of the case are the same) This makes it very difficult and time consuming for a lawyer to both write up a perfect prenup. Also as new cases are heard by the courts, their outcomes add to current case law. Which in turn changes it. Meaning a good prenup contract 5 years ago might be full of holes today.

The newspaper links were simply 2 examples of people who Most likely have alot more money than me. So im guessing they got good legal advice on how to structure their affairs. Then 1 or more of: A situation occurred that neither them or their lawyer considered, the contract was unclear so the courts had to interpret it, The situation of the parties changed meaning the contract no longer reflected their actual situation, Case law changed meaning the contract no longer reflected the current law, 1 of the parties launched an opportunist case hoping to get lucky. Presumably if everything had been perfect from a legal point of view. There either these court cases would never have happened or the cases would have been about mundane matters like "you haven't paid" or "you didn't follow the contract" It was simply a way of saying that if people with better access to legal advice still run into problems. Then what hope have I got in making a prenup that will be impossible to challenge? (at least in the no kids situation)

Aredwood I have a simple solution for you - find a woman who as equal or more assets than you then let her worry about the pre-nup! You'd be surprised how many woman there are out there who are single with assets like yours, but it truly sounds like you're not really looking for other reasons. Myself and some of my female colleagues in the IT industry would definitely be writing a pre-nup if we hooked up with you.

Im Happy that there are woman out there who share my views on asset protection. And yes I would happily sign such a pre-nup, Even if her assets were 10X mine I would still do so.

Also some more background - I guess I have been looking at friends relationships. And seeing the varying problems they have been happening. Including that 2 of my friends are solo dads. 1 of whom got into a big custody dispute. (can't post any details about it otherwise people will be able to figure out who it involves). And although they have their problems, I also see alot of them married, and with their own happy families. So although I haven't made up my mind yet, Im seriously considering contacting Fertility Associates. With regards to the OP.

whatarethey

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1219670 22-Jan-2015 07:12

DravidDavid:
networkn: She did raise a point about how seriously I take the raising of kids and being unable to be directly involved in their upbringing was a deal breaker I hadn't properly considered until that point. Smart woman my wife!

Interesting point. While I love helping out, I think the inner me (who doesn't actually want children at all) would be burning inside wondering how my kid was doing. I wonder how hard it might be to gain custody of the child should the relationship you donated to broke up. Or I wonder if that could be part of a contract signed before donation? It sounds strange and I really don't have a reason as to why I feel that way...But I'd hate for a child with my blood surging through it's veins ending up on the CYF circuit.

I do appreciate the insight into what donors might be thinking, and I get where you're coming from - I think it's human nature to worry about what might go wrong, you don't know us, we don't know you etc.

I would submit though, that these are very worst-case scenarios. I can't speak for other women in our situation, but would we harm our child? Absolutely not. We've waited so long to be sure we're at the right point emotionally, in our relationship, and in our careers, to have a child, the thought of hurting them in any way is just... foreign.

And if my wife and I should break up, we'd handle it the same way any other couple would - we'd work out shared custody and take pains to ensure our kid knew that it wasn't their fault and that both their mummies love them very much.
It certainly wouldn't mean they'd end up in CYF care. And the donor would certainly not have any grounds to gain custody just because our relationship ended.

I'm glad that people are at least thinking the idea through though. Thanks guys

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jpoc

1043 posts

Uber Geek

#1220352 22-Jan-2015 20:04

Would you consider trying to find a male same sex couple who are in a similar position to you and see if you can come to a mutually beneficial arrangement?

2468

1 post

Wannabe Geek

#1237805 14-Feb-2015 10:53

I just want to say that I have a beautiful little baby as a result of an anonymous sperm donor. We had a huge wait, we told we might have to wait between 2-4 years due to a huge shortage. Fortunately the clinic upped their recruitment advertising and only had to wait for 18months. The donor has no legal responsibilities, they will never get a knock on the door from the child seeking their inheritance. The donors name will not appear on the birth certificate, but the chi!d can seek the do ors details when they are 18. I also want to add that fertility treatment is extremely stressful. I think if a coup!e can survive the gruelling process of Ivf, then odds are they have a pretty solid relationship. I don't know who our donor is, but I am eternally grateful that he made the decision to donate. Good luck with your journey

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