Tenancy Tribunal advice

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#1262149 19-Mar-2015 09:47

UKNZ: Thanks everyone this is really handy.

The main part of my case is that they are claiming damage to floors which looks like a couple of 1-3cm indentations in 5 rooms, very spread out and only 1 seems to break the surface and are claiming it needs a full sand and 3 coats of varnish in all the rooms, and they have 3 quotes for about $4k each to back it up. Seems insane to me, especially as the original floor looked patchy anyway. Cant they just patch the indentations?

(all of which is aside from the question of whether we actually caused them, but I'll leave that for now)

I think, they will have to be able to prove this is not normal wear and tear. So any photos you have of the floor while you were living there would be useful to you in establishing how the floor wore naturally.

tdgeek

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#1262157 19-Mar-2015 09:58

Glassboy:
UKNZ: Thanks everyone this is really handy.

The main part of my case is that they are claiming damage to floors which looks like a couple of 1-3cm indentations in 5 rooms, very spread out and only 1 seems to break the surface and are claiming it needs a full sand and 3 coats of varnish in all the rooms, and they have 3 quotes for about $4k each to back it up. Seems insane to me, especially as the original floor looked patchy anyway. Cant they just patch the indentations?

(all of which is aside from the question of whether we actually caused them, but I'll leave that for now)

I think, they will have to be able to prove this is not normal wear and tear. So any photos you have of the floor while you were living there would be useful to you in establishing how the floor wore naturally.

I am getting the feeling that it is damage, and not wear and tear. The OP sorta implied that in the original post. Wear and tear on a floor isn't going to cause long or deepish gouges. It would be small nicks, losing shine. We really need to see pics of the floor that is, and isnt in question. I'd say the judge will decide, not on damage, but where the wear and tear line is drawn

Batman

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#1262164 19-Mar-2015 10:10

unfortunately polished floors are easily damaged. renters beware.

a couple of things

1) check preinspection reports - if no mention of floors then no evidence it wasn't there before
2) if there is proof you caused the damaged while under lease you will have to fix it unfortunately
3) if you have contents insurance it can be used to pay for the repairs under "liability cover"

for future renters if you rent a house with perfectly polished floors ... good luck!

Lias

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#1262195 19-Mar-2015 10:29

I am not the tenancy tribunal, but as far as I'm concerned anyone who knowingly rents a house to parents of small children is accepting that the house is going to receive a higher level of use than say a professional couple. Puke, milk, poo's, wee's, food, playdough etc in carpets. Drawing on walls. Toys dropped on wooden floors. Chairs dragged on kitchen floors. These are things you can expect from toddlers/small children. To me if you know that under 5's will be living in a place, they are fair wear and tear.

I may be potentially biased being the parent of under 5's:-P

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#1262199 19-Mar-2015 10:31

That would be nice! Not sure about the tribunal's vote on this as you said.

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#1262200 19-Mar-2015 10:32

View. Darn autocorrect

tdgeek

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#1262205 19-Mar-2015 10:37

Lias: I am not the tenancy tribunal, but as far as I'm concerned anyone who knowingly rents a house to parents of small children is accepting that the house is going to receive a higher level of use than say a professional couple. Puke, milk, poo's, wee's, food, playdough etc in carpets. Drawing on walls. Toys dropped on wooden floors. Chairs dragged on kitchen floors. These are things you can expect from toddlers/small children. To me if you know that under 5's will be living in a place, they are fair wear and tear.

I may be potentially biased being the parent of under 5's:-P

Get a copyright permission from Lias and add his text to your case, well said.

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surfisup1000

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#1262237 19-Mar-2015 11:05

Read this....

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/UserFiles/File/Publications/Tenancy/pdf/Residential-Tenancy-Agreement.pdf

Did you fill in the property inspection report prior to moving in? If you ticked the floors are fine, and now they have these marks then you will have to either argue they were so miniscule you didn't notice them , or , fair wear and tear.

If you never filled in such a form then you are in the clear, just say you believe the marks were pre existing and there is no evidence (ie, the preinspection report) to the contrary .

And, they will never get 4k even if you are found liable. They'll get a fraction of that to repair/compsenate for the spots. These people are very bad landlords either way this goes.

gbwelly

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#1262425 19-Mar-2015 14:04

surfisup1000: And, they will never get 4k even if you are found liable. They'll get a fraction of that to repair/compsenate for the spots. These people are very bad landlords either way this goes.

Not hearing both sides of the story here. If I was operating in the high end rental market I'd be spewing if I'd spent thousands getting the place looking top notch and someone gouged holes in the floor.

surfisup1000

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#1262452 19-Mar-2015 14:27

gbwelly:
surfisup1000: And, they will never get 4k even if you are found liable. They'll get a fraction of that to repair/compsenate for the spots. These people are very bad landlords either way this goes.

Not hearing both sides of the story here. If I was operating in the high end rental market I'd be spewing if I'd spent thousands getting the place looking top notch and someone gouged holes in the floor.

You are making assumptions outside of what the OP has stated.

Yes, I would feel the same if I rented out a luxury house and the tenants destroyed the floor. That doesn't seem the case with the OP though.

heylinb4nz

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#1262460 19-Mar-2015 14:35

Depending on the condition of the rest of the floor area, the most your would be liable for is 1 square meter (floor sanding and polishing is charged by the square meter, around $130-$150). Asking for the full $4000 is like asking someone to pay for a full car respray because they damaged 1 panel.

By the sounds of it they were not freshly done floors, so had previous wear and tear of X number of years which would need to be taken into account. Plus if they plan to keep it as a rental then a 3cm mark is not going to effect the rental value, and more damage \ wear will occur with new tennants.

Accidents happen when moving furniture and wood floors are prone to minor damage even if you are really careful. Sounds like the landlord needs to take a chill pill and a reality check.

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#1262478 19-Mar-2015 14:46

Maybe the landlord has nothing to dpi with this maybe it's the property managers?

tdgeek

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#1262492 19-Mar-2015 14:54

surfisup1000:
gbwelly:
surfisup1000: And, they will never get 4k even if you are found liable. They'll get a fraction of that to repair/compsenate for the spots. These people are very bad landlords either way this goes.

Not hearing both sides of the story here. If I was operating in the high end rental market I'd be spewing if I'd spent thousands getting the place looking top notch and someone gouged holes in the floor.

You are making assumptions outside of what the OP has stated.

Yes, I would feel the same if I rented out a luxury house and the tenants destroyed the floor. That doesn't seem the case with the OP though.

The OP's second post said it was a couple of 1 to 3cm indentations across 5 rooms. sp thats 10 marks spanning most rooms. The plot thickens.

SepticSceptic

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#1263481 19-Mar-2015 15:25

tdgeek:
The OP's second post said it was a couple of 1 to 3cm indentations across 5 rooms. sp thats 10 marks spanning most rooms. The plot thickens.

Could be swivel rollers or pegs from beds ? Kids jumping on beds causing the indentations ?

tdgeek

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#1263501 19-Mar-2015 15:39

SepticSceptic:
tdgeek:
The OP's second post said it was a couple of 1 to 3cm indentations across 5 rooms. sp thats 10 marks spanning most rooms. The plot thickens.

Could be swivel rollers or pegs from beds ? Kids jumping on beds causing the indentations ?

Yep. I feel all of us are giving good advice, but without seeing the 10 plus marks its impossible to know if the landlord is being anal or the marks stick out like dogs b&lls. That its going to the tribunal appears to show that they are significant marks that are beyond the wear and tear of the rest of the floor. As mentioned earlier, the judge will have to set a line in the sand for acceptable wear and tear. And as mentioned if kids live there, thats the landlords full knowledge, so where is kids wear and tear and where is occupiers negligence?

Personally, I get the feeling the marks are noticeable enough to warrant a repair, and I guess a heat treatment to pop them out won't work. Lets say the the judge finds in favour of the landlord, a full sand and poly is too much. Thats not reasonable on an already older floor. Patch sand, and varnish, that would be quite cheap I'd have thought, $200?

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