No Jab - No Pay!

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#1281882 13-Apr-2015 10:21

People have got incredibly complacent (stupid) about how nasty those disease outbreaks actually were.

My late grandmother told me stories about the spanish influenza outbreak in Christchurch when she was a little girl. It was pretty shocking.
My parents were children when there was a polio outbreak in NZ in the 1950s - Dad is suffering from side effects now in his 70s.
Those generations would not hesitate to innoculate as they know just how devastating those outbreaks were.

Smallpox doesnt exist now because of the generations that helped wipe it out.

Children should not be allowed to start school without agreeing to the public inoculation programs being allowed to be applied.
Prosecute parents who dont send their kids to school.
Nice catch-22 there.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

ubergeeknz

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#1281884 13-Apr-2015 10:24

robjg63: children should not be allowed to start school without agreeing to the public inoculation programs being allowed to be applied.
Prosecute parents who dont send their kids to school.
Nice catch-22 there.

I do agree with this somewhat. But more needs doing to convince parents that it is the absolute right thing to do, and how bad the diseases are these shots are to prevent. They are very, very bad and the trouble is very few living souls have seen the effects first hand precisely because of vaccinations.

keewee01

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#1281885 13-Apr-2015 10:25

I saw this open letter from a pediatrician to anti-vax parents a while back. Hopefully its level headedness opened a lot of anti-vax parents eyes!

networkn

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#1281886 13-Apr-2015 10:25

My Dog can't go to a Kennel without proof of vaccinations because of the threat it presents to other Dogs. Why is my Dog held to a higher safety standard than my kids?

wasabi2k

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#1281894 13-Apr-2015 10:32

I am 100% for making people vaccinate their kids and I totally approve of this from that stand point.

I am also really hoping that this leads to parents getting their kids vaccinated, rather than not getting benefits.

Had a discussion at work today about kids not being allowed to go to school without them. It makes sense on one hand, but on the other why punish the kids for having stupid parents.

Anti-Vac people find a lot of willing adherents in the holistic healing area. We got the spiel (it's your option, you don't have to, doctors aren't always right) when we did a hypno-birthing (meditation, not as woo as it sounds) course. Very nearly ragequit then and there.

Oblivian

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#1281898 13-Apr-2015 10:36

networkn: My Dog can't go to a Kennel without proof of vaccinations because of the threat it presents to other Dogs. Why is my Dog held to a higher safety standard than my kids?

Couple of people raised this one this morning on the radio...

MileHighKiwi

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#1281899 13-Apr-2015 10:37

Our daughter is getting her 5 month jabs today. As a parent, not vaccinating her is just not an option for us. A lot of people I know that are anti-vax don't have children. I tell them, wait until you have kids before passing judgement on a parents decision.

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#1281904 13-Apr-2015 10:41

networkn: ... My wife is a Doctor, and we had an acquaintance who used a similar argument, so my wife arranged for them to visit someone suffering from whooping cough in the hospital. Their kids were immunised the same day. That person is now very pro-vax. ..

Back in the 1970s I was working in an infectious diseases ward in Birmingham (UK).
We had 12 childrens' beds for a city with a population of 5 million.
There had just been a big anti-whooping cough vaccine scare, widely publicized on TV.
The local whooping cough vaccination rate fell from 85% (borderline) to 31% (catastrophic).
There was a major outbreak of whooping cough, sometimes with every child in a block of high-rise council flats infected at once.
Only the very sickest of these children could receive hospital care as there were hundreds of them at any one time.
I personally witnessed the deaths of two of these children, and it wasn't a nice way to die.

There are legitimate medical reasons for not giving pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine to some children, but that is a totally different thing from electing not to immunize because of propaganda, or simply not bothering to immunize at all.

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Gilco2

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#1281911 13-Apr-2015 10:48

I dont agree with no vac no pay.
It shouldnt be a blanket approach and all factors should be taken into account. Friends of mine had their daughter vaccinated and she reacted. It was very close as to whether she would live or die. She did live but was seriously ill for 6 months where it could have gone either way. When their youngest son came along they agonised for a long time whether to vaccinate or not. They did and he was fine.
But how could you possibly condemn them if they never vaccinated him after the experience with their daughter.

Yes the risks are low and possibly rare but all circumstances need to be taken into account before making a blanket statement

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Wade

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#1281914 13-Apr-2015 10:51

networkn: My Dog can't go to a Kennel without proof of vaccinations because of the threat it presents to other Dogs. Why is my Dog held to a higher safety standard than my kids?

My daughter can't attend daycare without having up to date immunizations

I recall the jabs at school, there was nothing optional about them from what i remember, nor do i recall my or others parents having an issue with the process either?

Oblivian

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#1281937 13-Apr-2015 11:12

Wade:
networkn: My Dog can't go to a Kennel without proof of vaccinations because of the threat it presents to other Dogs. Why is my Dog held to a higher safety standard than my kids?

My daughter can't attend daycare without having up to date immunizations

I recall the jabs at school, there was nothing optional about them from what i remember, nor do i recall my or others parents having an issue with the process either?

Nope. It was the done thing.

Then come the internet and misinformation. Read on internet = must be true!

nakedmolerat

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#1281970 13-Apr-2015 11:45

KiwiNZ: While I agree whole heartedly with vaccination the proposed Australian solution is draconian and I would not like that to be considered here.

I agree this is a step too far.

networkn

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#1281980 13-Apr-2015 11:54

Gilco2: I dont agree with no vac no pay.
It shouldnt be a blanket approach and all factors should be taken into account. Friends of mine had their daughter vaccinated and she reacted. It was very close as to whether she would live or die. She did live but was seriously ill for 6 months where it could have gone either way. When their youngest son came along they agonised for a long time whether to vaccinate or not. They did and he was fine.
But how could you possibly condemn them if they never vaccinated him after the experience with their daughter.

Yes the risks are low and possibly rare but all circumstances need to be taken into account before making a blanket statement

Umm you realize that most of the diseases immunization prevents would have as serious and potentially considerably more serious consequences as the side effects of immunizations? Also the percentage of kids that react vs the number of kids that would end up getting these diseases aren't even comparable?

I would easily condemn a parent who had one kid affected and didn't immunize the second kid. See above for justification.

Dairyxox

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#1282014 13-Apr-2015 12:23

Sorry but I'm not going to simply OK any 'vaccination' for my kids.
I'm going to consider each vaccination on a case by case basis. I refuse to simply trust the powers that be, and follow like a sheep. If I'm going to refuse a jab, then there will be a good reason for it (maybe its got mercury or other toxic ingredients, or is poorly tested etc). There better not be any penalty.

DjShadow

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#1282020 13-Apr-2015 12:30

The way I look at it is I had all those vaccinations when I was a kid and I grew up without any health problems related to them.

To me if you don't jab your kids it is a form of child abuse as it is just opening them up for getting sick from things that should of been eliminated long ago.
I think it is a case of the Tin Foil brigade strikes again

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