How fast "should" ADSL2+ be?

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Uber Geek

#2327853 1-Oct-2019 16:21

It's not a case of fixing the 12dB noise margin, it's a case of having ddDLM activated. If the cabinet is full of old line cards (sounds like it is from above), then they may not have this capability, in which case the 12dB margin will stay.

If ddDLM is active, and it's holding at 12, then there is something causing noise or interference on the line. This may or may not actually be fixable though.

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2327855 1-Oct-2019 16:30

hio77:

Chorusnz:

Estimated line distance is 1.5km.

As atomeara has pointed out it may well be worth while giving VDSL a try (along with a full install). The only accurate way to estimate if VDSL is in fact going to work is to actually test it out for a while. And you can always switch back if it proves to be too unstable. ^Richard

As a side note, Might pay to get the teams up update the details on the cabinet in that case.

For example... CCM doesnt display VDSL nor the fibre link. Prequals for addresses right next to the cabinet indicate no WVS 0 and DSL speeds max out at ADSL1 Profile speeds on the DSL Speed report. Broadband Coverage report lists the cabinet correctly as a Ethernet Fed ISAM, but doesn't list VDSL as available.

Happy to shout out WAK/J as another example of where it's confused..

All adds up to simply confusion for not only end users but also providers.

There overdue to update CCM map dots for ADSL 2+ and VDSL, it was weekly until recently and its been a month now.

Generally these get updated right away for ADSL 2+ and within 1-2 months for most of them for VDSL

The actual VDSL shapes files seem to be every 6-12 months

Fibre paths 6 - 18 months.

A lot of stuff seems to lag behind, ditto with some staff in wireline, it normally results in an email to Prov, the SDM or worst case the project manager doing all these upgrades (I am aware of 1 ISP pushing VDSL on all the new cabinets and is in regular communication with all these parties). Likely the same company that kicked off this question from Tourist.

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2327856 1-Oct-2019 16:30

RunningMan:
It's not a case of fixing the 12dB noise margin, it's a case of having ddDLM activated. If the cabinet is full of old line cards (sounds like it is from above), then they may not have this capability, in which case the 12dB margin will stay.

If ddDLM is active, and it's holding at 12, then there is something causing noise or interference on the line. This may or may not actually be fixable though.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2327867 1-Oct-2019 16:54

atomeara:

A lot of stuff seems to lag behind, ditto with some staff in wireline, it normally results in an email to Prov, the SDM or worst case the project manager doing all these upgrades (I am aware of 1 ISP pushing VDSL on all the new cabinets and is in regular communication with all these parties). Likely the same company that kicked off this question from Tourist.

Yup, it's almost like they dont want to provide information in order to allow us to order their products....

Just means more wireless being sold eh.

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coffeebaron

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#2327872 1-Oct-2019 17:02

Tourist: So if prequal indicates 12 and I am getting 6, with new ethernet from Demarc to modem and nothing else wired in I assume there is a problem with the wires from cabinet to me. Someone indicated 12dB noise margin wasn't great. Can that be fixed. If that is the case I raise it with the ISP first? And no point trying VDSL until sorted? Or would a VDSL install change something else.

If you're confident about the internal wiring, then yes log a fault for low sync speed.

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Tourist

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#2327873 1-Oct-2019 17:04

coffeebaron:
Tourist: So if prequal indicates 12 and I am getting 6, with new ethernet from Demarc to modem and nothing else wired in I assume there is a problem with the wires from cabinet to me. Someone indicated 12dB noise margin wasn't great. Can that be fixed. If that is the case I raise it with the ISP first? And no point trying VDSL until sorted? Or would a VDSL install change something else.

If you're confident about the internal wiring, then yes log a fault for low sync speed.

Thanks. Next step underway.

Tourist

19 posts

Geek

#2327887 1-Oct-2019 17:12

hio77:
atomeara:

A lot of stuff seems to lag behind, ditto with some staff in wireline, it normally results in an email to Prov, the SDM or worst case the project manager doing all these upgrades (I am aware of 1 ISP pushing VDSL on all the new cabinets and is in regular communication with all these parties). Likely the same company that kicked off this question from Tourist.

Yup, it's almost like they dont want to provide information in order to allow us to order their products....

Just means more wireless being sold eh.

Yes, one ISP had list of cabinets being done. No-one else had anything. (You used to be able to see table of cabinets and planned dates etc. Not any more.)

Direct contact around time it went live. No one else has done anything to push this.

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hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2327891 1-Oct-2019 17:21

Tourist:
hio77:

atomeara:

A lot of stuff seems to lag behind, ditto with some staff in wireline, it normally results in an email to Prov, the SDM or worst case the project manager doing all these upgrades (I am aware of 1 ISP pushing VDSL on all the new cabinets and is in regular communication with all these parties). Likely the same company that kicked off this question from Tourist.

Yup, it's almost like they dont want to provide information in order to allow us to order their products....

Just means more wireless being sold eh.

Yes, one ISP had list of cabinets being done. No-one else had anything. (You used to be able to see table of cabinets and planned dates etc. Not any more.) Direct contact around time it went live. No one else has done anything to push this.

I pushed it for one of the local cabinets here... Chorus did a drop mailer too though.

If i look through my emails, Yes i did get a planned work notification. but often after the work is done it's set to wait for ages before they actually allow it - EG, power meters to be installed etc.. (was 3 months for the cabinet i'm connected to years ago....)

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atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2328365 2-Oct-2019 12:22

It is a dark art predicting what cabinets are being done, when and what they are actually install to them (fibre or other)

As there are 2 reports from Chorus and they often say different things, in one case they both said Fibre and it ended up being part fibre and part eDMR link!

The 30R report is the most accurate I've found.

In Auckland I have been relying on the Auckland Transport CAR map, if I can see work from existing fibre to the old cabinet then I know it is getting fibre, generally it has the cabient name in it too.

Tourist

19 posts

Geek

#2328618 2-Oct-2019 18:26

Just to keep the thread updated for anyone following along.

Bigpipe contacted me and asked me to do a speed test.

i did that and submitted the result. Actual was 5.3Mbps down today.

Their reply below.

I have said that it is not acceptable to accept sub-standard performance without any attempt to improve the situation. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for your reply.

Although slow, this result is within what we would consider an acceptable margin and judging by historical speeds and attenuation at your address, this is about as fast as your connection is going to get.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but realistically degradation on the Copper network is to be expected in rural areas (even it built up areas).

Let us know if we are able to offer any further assistance.

Cheers,

The Bigpipe People.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2328634 2-Oct-2019 19:19

So the Bigpipe folk are responding based on what the systems are telling them.

Which is exactly what i noted above, Although the cabinet may have been upgraded. That's not aligned anywhere.

@BigpipeNZ might be able to help ya though

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myfullflavour

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Full Flavour

#2328998 3-Oct-2019 12:09

I've just skim read this thread but does the OP have a master splitter installed along with a dedicated DSL jack?

We're probably the ISP that advertised VDSL in the first place - unfortunately our mailers rely on Chorus shapefiles and sometimes these are out of whack from reality. When we receive an enquiry we'll normally use CCM to estimate the line length and advise the customer VDSL is unlikely to be a go for anything over 1600m.

myfullflavour

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Full Flavour

#2328999 3-Oct-2019 12:11

hio77:
If i look through my emails, Yes i did get a planned work notification. but often after the work is done it's set to wait for ages before they actually allow it - EG, power meters to be installed etc.. (was 3 months for the cabinet i'm connected to years ago....)

Chorus publish several reports each month detailing the cabinet upgrade rollout. The other tools (Wireline/Auto Prequals, CCM etc) can be a few months behind. We lodge A LOT of manual prequels on behalf of our new customers and often are instrumental in getting Chorus to sort their records out so we can get our orders placed.

Tourist

19 posts

Geek

#2329122 3-Oct-2019 17:00

myfullflavour: I've just skim read this thread but does the OP have a master splitter installed along with a dedicated DSL jack?

We're probably the ISP that advertised VDSL in the first place - unfortunately our mailers rely on Chorus shapefiles and sometimes these are out of whack from reality. When we receive an enquiry we'll normally use CCM to estimate the line length and advise the customer VDSL is unlikely to be a go for anything over 1600m.

Hi. No splitter. Direct from Demarc to modem on Cat6. Nothing else connected.

Yes, you guys advised VDSL could achieve up to 20 Mbps at the address in the mail out. And on subsequent discussion. Didn't proceed as that contradicted the available guides for VDSL reach.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2329129 3-Oct-2019 17:12

Tourist:
myfullflavour: I've just skim read this thread but does the OP have a master splitter installed along with a dedicated DSL jack?

We're probably the ISP that advertised VDSL in the first place - unfortunately our mailers rely on Chorus shapefiles and sometimes these are out of whack from reality. When we receive an enquiry we'll normally use CCM to estimate the line length and advise the customer VDSL is unlikely to be a go for anything over 1600m.

Hi. No splitter. Direct from Demarc to modem on Cat6. Nothing else connected.

Yes, you guys advised VDSL could achieve up to 20 Mbps at the address in the mail out. And on subsequent discussion. Didn't proceed as that contradicted the available guides for VDSL reach.

Please go with them, prove the point for me ;)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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