How fast "should" ADSL2+ be?

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myfullflavour

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Full Flavour

#2329143 3-Oct-2019 17:46

hio77:
Tourist:
myfullflavour: I've just skim read this thread but does the OP have a master splitter installed along with a dedicated DSL jack?

We're probably the ISP that advertised VDSL in the first place - unfortunately our mailers rely on Chorus shapefiles and sometimes these are out of whack from reality. When we receive an enquiry we'll normally use CCM to estimate the line length and advise the customer VDSL is unlikely to be a go for anything over 1600m.

Hi. No splitter. Direct from Demarc to modem on Cat6. Nothing else connected.

Yes, you guys advised VDSL could achieve up to 20 Mbps at the address in the mail out. And on subsequent discussion. Didn't proceed as that contradicted the available guides for VDSL reach.

Please go with them, prove the point for me ;)

CRM shows we told the customer it was ADSL only.

Good try though. :-)

Tourist

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#2329186 3-Oct-2019 18:02

myfullflavour:
hio77:
Tourist:

myfullflavour: I've just skim read this thread but does the OP have a master splitter installed along with a dedicated DSL jack?

We're probably the ISP that advertised VDSL in the first place - unfortunately our mailers rely on Chorus shapefiles and sometimes these are out of whack from reality. When we receive an enquiry we'll normally use CCM to estimate the line length and advise the customer VDSL is unlikely to be a go for anything over 1600m.

Hi. No splitter. Direct from Demarc to modem on Cat6. Nothing else connected.

Yes, you guys advised VDSL could achieve up to 20 Mbps at the address in the mail out. And on subsequent discussion. Didn't proceed as that contradicted the available guides for VDSL reach.

Please go with them, prove the point for me ;)

CRM shows we told the customer it was ADSL only.

Good try though. :-)

Don't really want to have an internet war, but:

I still have the letter from you, with my street address, stating that VDSL would give me around 20 Mbps.

I had the conversations with your sales guys who indicated VDSL was good to around 2.0km

So, your CRM is wrong and incorrectly filled out.

I suggest you should look into it as it shows your sales people either don't know what they are doing or are indulging in some license when selling, and are then misrepresenting the conversation.

Cheers

BigPipeNZ

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BigPipe

#2329193 3-Oct-2019 18:41

Thanks for the tag @hio77 :)

We also check CCM in situations like this. As others have mentioned though, it's difficult when there's no data from nearby addresses to compare to.

We're in the process of investigating this with our friends at Chorus. We'll keep you up to date via your support case @Tourist. Fingers crossed! 🤞

bigpipe.co.nz
https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ
https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

myfullflavour

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#2329198 3-Oct-2019 18:48

Tourist:
I suggest you should look into it as it shows your sales people either don't know what they are doing or are indulging in some license when selling, and are then misrepresenting the conversation.

Cheers

This is what was emailed to you on August 30, sorry if there was any confusion - we work hard with our presales team on not overselling the service.

Tourist

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#2329715 4-Oct-2019 19:30

BigPipeNZ:

Thanks for the tag @hio77 :)

We also check CCM in situations like this. As others have mentioned though, it's difficult when there's no data from nearby addresses to compare to.

We're in the process of investigating this with our friends at Chorus. We'll keep you up to date via your support case @Tourist. Fingers crossed! 🤞

Thanks @hio77 for tagging Bigpipe in.

Thanks @BigpipeNZ technician has been out.

Changed the pair.

Now sync is 10 and dowload is 8.8. Definite improvement, if not as good as hoped.

RunningMan

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#2329758 4-Oct-2019 19:38

That's not a bad result. Copper quality will differ by area, but that sync rate is a lot closer to what I would have expected for the attenuation.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2329760 4-Oct-2019 19:42

Yup that's exactly a result I'd expect.

From my position it's difficult to promise that will happen unless there are variables to argue it.

You have next to no places with copper around so it's hard to compare.

Give it time for dddlm to settle from here.

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Tourist

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#2329761 4-Oct-2019 19:45

myfullflavour:
Tourist:

I suggest you should look into it as it shows your sales people either don't know what they are doing or are indulging in some license when selling, and are then misrepresenting the conversation.

Cheers

This is what was emailed to you on August 30, sorry if there was any confusion - we work hard with our presales team on not overselling the service.

I had to go back through the home email address and find that. My wife forwarded that to me at work and I saw it was regarding installation, skimmed it as I understand the process, and discarded. Apologies for not being fully aware of all your communications.

Had I been aware it would have made the following discussions more entertaining, and probably avoided this.

Below is what I received at the beginning of September. (after the email you refer to). And again I am sorry. No, I didn’t catch the important line buried in your email. But I’m obviously going to see the glossy mail out specifically addressed to me.

Note it has my street address and is addressed directly to me. It states we are likely to receive speeds over 20 Mbps. Following receipt of the letter I had telephone discussion with your sales people where I was the one questioning the assertion of 20 Mbps at greater than 2 kilometres. They advised me that vectoring VDSL is good for around 2 kilometres and those results were not impossible. I’m prepared to accept there is something I don’t know about so went to investigate VDSL further where I discovered it won’t reliably do that distance at that speed. I also found forum users here have tried, had problems with stability, dropped connections and lower than ADSL speed, and reverted back to their original ADSL2+ connection. Hence my earlier comment about seeing as this is different from all of the technical advice, I decided not to proceed.

It is good that you are passionate about your company and you seek to defend your brand. I was also impressed that FullFlavour seemed to be the only ISP that was actually aware of the cabinet upgrades. Others I spoke to were certain it was not capable. It is also good that you try not to oversell. Feedback from the customer at the end of the line. Your system and team did oversell, just a bit. 😊

In this case however it seems a bit of a PR disaster to be debating with a potential customer in public and seeking to correct him when he has written evidence, and advised you prior to your post that he has written evidence, that directly contradicts what you are saying.

This is possibly something for your management team to consider, along with why your CRM records are deficient in terms of capturing the full scope of communications? (they shouldn’t be selective in what they cover, should they?)

All the best in your endeavours and I hope business is good. You guys obviously do some things well. Improvement is the key to being even better.

Tourist

19 posts

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#2329762 4-Oct-2019 19:47

hio77: Yup that's exactly a result I'd expect.

From my position it's difficult to promise that will happen unless there are variables to argue it.

You have next to no places with copper around so it's hard to compare.

Give it time for dddlm to settle from here.

Thanks. No previous experience with dddlm so not sure what possible benefits. Technician said the line was clean, so hoping for a few gains.

RunningMan

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#2329764 4-Oct-2019 19:56

Assuming the line is still syncing with a 12dB noise margin and ddDLM does its thing and the line good (it's obviously better than before) the hopefully that noise margin will drop to 6dB over night at some stage, with a corresponding further increase in sync rate.

Tourist

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#2329782 4-Oct-2019 22:52

Thanks. Makes sense about hopefully better margin. Think I saw somewhere about waiting 10 days for full process. Is that right?

Jase2985

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#2329871 5-Oct-2019 06:55

Tourist: Thanks. Makes sense about hopefully better margin. Think I saw somewhere about waiting 10 days for full process. Is that right?

its doing it all the time but usually does what it needs to do in the first 10 days

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2329896 5-Oct-2019 09:03

Jase2985:
Tourist: Thanks. Makes sense about hopefully better margin. Think I saw somewhere about waiting 10 days for full process. Is that right?

its doing it all the time but usually does what it needs to do in the first 10 days

Training period likely wasn't reset as part of this.

With as larger change as experienced though. It will pickup and reassess your service.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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