Am I too old to enter tech industry?

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16 posts

Geek

#2177590 13-Feb-2019 12:45

StarMan:

Hammerer:

In practice, Whitireia/Computer Power say they get about 90% of eligible candidates into jobs.

Slightly off topic, but for the record: I think their claim is highly dubious given my experience. They're flat out dishonest in some aspects of their training. I'd like to see their 90% claim backed up.

Unfortunately I tend to agree. I wonder if there is anyone in Wellington who would like to train me up if I work for free

gzt

17134 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2177690 13-Feb-2019 14:52

StarMan:
Hammerer:

In practice, Whitireia/Computer Power say they get about 90% of eligible candidates into jobs.

Slightly off topic, but for the record: I think their claim is highly dubious given my experience. They're flat out dishonest in some aspects of their training. I'd like to see their 90% claim backed up.

More like 90% of trainees get jobs. With the vast majority doing so without an assistance from the institution. Nothing particularly wrong with that, it's a different stat. Are these the exact job or the exact career path to what they wanted originally? Not always. Again, that's not always a problem, just different.

GreenApples

16 posts

Geek

#2188543 28-Feb-2019 01:22

Does anyone recommend dev academy, or have heard anything about it? Apparently people have found jobs after graduating. Could it be a better option than polytech? It's only 4 months long, is it possible to be a faster way to a foot in the door to an entry level role? Thanks in advance

https://devacademy.co.nz/student-outcomes/

irongarment

280 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2188585 28-Feb-2019 08:31

You first posted about this two months ago, which is half of the time of that course.

I recommended that if you wanted to be a programmer you should be a programmer.

During those two months, have you written any software? A utility? A script? A single web page with a button?

Finding the shortest course with the expectation that it will be the key to a job is a bit optimistic. Programming is hard, conceptually, but if you've been doing it for a while then it's easier to get something together.

If you haven't been writing any programs for the last two months then you're probably not a programmer. Sorry.

If you really want to be a programmer, then start today. A few lines of Python. Maybe "Hello World" in C. Even (shudder) some PHP.

StarMan

10 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2190055 2-Mar-2019 21:28

Programming is something - IMO - that once you get it, you get it. A Professor at Canterbury University - Richard Lobb, put it best. He said you'll whack your head against a wall for a while but one day, it'll just click. When you first encounter nested loops it's pretty scary. Once you cross that threshold though, you don't unlearn it. Like riding a bike. Once you've got the basic toolkit of coding you aren't likely to forget it. The tricky bit comes when deciding on your focus and the libraries that have built up about each language.

So far as DevAcademy ... or any tertiary institute - they want your money. Buyer beware. Look, it's all out there online. Their coursework struggle to stay up with Industry. Plus, from my experience, the key factor is a solid portfolio if you're starting out. Titles, diplomas, degrees ... they want something tangible they can interact with.

If you really want to do this - have a look here: http://www.pythontutor.com/

solutionz

589 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2190209 3-Mar-2019 12:18

My recommendations from zero to hero progressively in 6 months with free tutorials;

GIMP - Free alternative to Photoshop introduces you to the basics of graphic design.
HTML - Intro to the basics of syntax (logical structure) and markup (arranging content).
CSS - Intro to more advanced content styling and develops concepts needed to understand programming functions & objects.
Bootstrap 4 - Intro to frameworks for more efficient development, advanced features & maintainable code (needed to work with teams).
Javascript - Intro to programming.
Angular JS - Intro to dynamic content.
JSON - Intro to API's to interact with external data sources.
Node.js - Intro to (web) servers.
SQL - Intro to databases.
Start looking at scalable deployment services like AWS Elestic Beanstalk, Google Cloud etc.

After #1 you have the basic graphic skills to make basic websites on Wix, manage social media etc - you can charge small businesses up to a couple hundred bucks for this.
After #2 & #3 you have more ability to create more custom websites or look at junior front-end design roles.
After #4 you'll be qualified as a junior front-end developer or + #5 can start looking at making mobile apps.
After #5, #6, #7 you have the skills of an intermediate front-end dev - lots of contracting opportunities (I'd be happy to give you work).
After #8 & #9 you're looking like a full-stack dev - earning the big bucks!
After #10 you're a full-stack dev-ops wizard ready to create the next billion dollar startup!

Google & StackExchange are your friend.

irongarment

280 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2190244 3-Mar-2019 12:43

I should have included MIT App Inventor.

I hate apps, but App Inventor is easy to set up and play with, and you can make your very own fart app for free instead of paying 99c for one. If you have Android, of course.

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solutionz

589 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2190249 3-Mar-2019 12:51

irongarment: I should have included MIT App Inventor.

I hate apps, but App Inventor is easy to set up and play with, and you can make your very own fart app for free instead of paying 99c for one. If you have Android, of course.

Yep true was meant to say (have just updated) after learning Javascript it opens the doors to mobile app development etc.

Most of what's listed it based around w3schools which kickstarted my development career (starting with ASP) back in the day.

Once you get a handle of the basic concepts listed the world's your oyster and other other frameworks, languages etc can be picked up fairly readily.

StarMan

10 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2190335 3-Mar-2019 16:36

^Great point. That's one thing to bear in mind GreenApples. You don't need to start from scratch each time you learn a new language/framework. Quite a few of them evolved from the other or in response to it. Not long into my first year of Computer Science the tutor said we basically had the toolkit. I was gobsmacked because I thought "Is that it?".Erm... no. He knew that of course. It can get pretty heavy and you'll find yourself reading a function you wrote and be astonished you know what you're reading. The essentials can be learned in bugger all time if you're interested.

Kiwifruta

1423 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2190346 3-Mar-2019 17:25

solutionz:
My recommendations from zero to hero progressively in 6 months with free tutorials;

GIMP - Free alternative to Photoshop introduces you to the basics of graphic design.

HTML - Intro to the basics of syntax (logical structure) and markup (arranging content).

CSS - Intro to more advanced content styling and develops concepts needed to understand programming functions & objects.

Bootstrap 4 - Intro to frameworks for more efficient development, advanced features & maintainable code (needed to work with teams).

Javascript - Intro to programming.

Angular JS - Intro to dynamic content.

JSON - Intro to API's to interact with external data sources.

Node.js - Intro to (web) servers.

SQL - Intro to databases.

Start looking at scalable deployment services like AWS Elestic Beanstalk, Google Cloud etc.

After #1 you have the basic graphic skills to make basic websites on Wix, manage social media etc - you can charge small businesses up to a couple hundred bucks for this.

After #2 & #3 you have more ability to create more custom websites or look at junior front-end design roles.

After #4 you'll be qualified as a junior front-end developer or + #5 can start looking at making mobile apps.

After #5, #6, #7 you have the skills of an intermediate front-end dev - lots of contracting opportunities (I'd be happy to give you work).

After #8 & #9 you're looking like a full-stack dev - earning the big bucks!

After #10 you're a full-stack dev-ops wizard ready to create the next billion dollar startup!

Google & StackExchange are your friend.

Interesting post. Just what sort of skill level does one need in each of those languages/skill sets?
I’ve been writing SQL in my job for 2 years straight, and still learning something most weeks.
Yet, I’d still only consider myself at intermediate level, despite dedicating 30 mins a day for a year on studying the language from books, and then applying it for the rest of the working day. I was also mentored in my second year by arguably my employer’s top SQL coder to mentor me during my second year.

Looking at your list it would seem an average of about 3 weeks on each skill set. Which in my mind would still make a SQL developer a novice, perhaps a beginner. Perhaps, I’m being too hard on my own skill level. There is a lot of data engineering involved in what I write.

The reason I ask is that perhaps I’m ready to freelance on the side.

solutionz

589 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2190362 3-Mar-2019 18:16

Kiwifruta: Interesting post. Just what sort of skill level does one need in each of those languages/skill sets?
I’ve been writing SQL in my job for 2 years straight, and still learning something most weeks.
Yet, I’d still only consider myself at intermediate level, despite dedicating 30 mins a day for a year on studying the language from books, and then applying it for the rest of the working day. I was also mentored in my second year by arguably my employer’s top SQL coder to mentor me during my second year.

Looking at your list it would seem an average of about 3 weeks on each skill set. Which in my mind would still make a SQL developer a novice, perhaps a beginner. Perhaps, I’m being too hard on my own skill level. There is a lot of data engineering involved in what I write.

The reason I ask is that perhaps I’m ready to freelance on the side.

Each of the tutorials I linked to I assume around 1 week (part time) to go through the material properly combined with another week of experimentation, tinkering around on your own projects etc - so about 1-2 weeks FTE for each subject (obviously some this can be spread out more as needed).

That's literally all that's needed to build enough foundational knowledge to become functional in those areas - not necessarily efficient as you'll still be doing lots of Googling as you go but at least you'll have an idea what to Google...

I wouldn't claim by any means this "the" optimum pathway for every dev however I've chosen a pathway (via w3schools) that provides a good foundation for most software development / related fields, is fairly efficient (as builds on common skills like JS) and provides progressively increasing opportunities (without wasting time/effort if you decide to stop along the way).

In regard to SQL... I wouldn't claim someone with 1-2 weeks practice would be in a good position to contract specifically for SQL. However coupled with skills 1-8 you now have a decent knowledge-base to function in a web development environment or to lead yourself through areas of basic app development etc.

In your position of working full time on SQL sounds like there's no reason you couldn't do some freelancing - finding the clients for such a niche may be a challenge but may as well give it a shot. You'll know more that 99% of people out there about SQL and be able to add value to some businesses wanting to figure out their reports etc; otherwise start learning more about managing databases (MS SQL Server, MySQL, Postgres or whatever you're used to) and now you can provide the full database admin (DBA) package.

Don't buy into the myth of the "uber coder" and think you have to be able to produce a constant stream of code off the top of your head. Everyone Googles stuff, reads manuals, looks up code snippets etc. and you'll just get more efficient with experience.

Kiwifruta

1423 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2190855 4-Mar-2019 17:58

solutionz:

Each of the tutorials I linked to I assume around 1 week (part time) to go through the material properly combined with another week of experimentation, tinkering around on your own projects etc - so about 1-2 weeks FTE for each subject (obviously some this can be spread out more as needed).

That's literally all that's needed to build enough foundational knowledge to become functional in those areas - not necessarily efficient as you'll still be doing lots of Googling as you go but at least you'll have an idea what to Google...

I wouldn't claim by any means this "the" optimum pathway for every dev however I've chosen a pathway (via w3schools) that provides a good foundation for most software development / related fields, is fairly efficient (as builds on common skills like JS) and provides progressively increasing opportunities (without wasting time/effort if you decide to stop along the way).

In regard to SQL... I wouldn't claim someone with 1-2 weeks practice would be in a good position to contract specifically for SQL. However coupled with skills 1-8 you now have a decent knowledge-base to function in a web development environment or to lead yourself through areas of basic app development etc.

In your position of working full time on SQL sounds like there's no reason you couldn't do some freelancing - finding the clients for such a niche may be a challenge but may as well give it a shot. You'll know more that 99% of people out there about SQL and be able to add value to some businesses wanting to figure out their reports etc; otherwise start learning more about managing databases (MS SQL Server, MySQL, Postgres or whatever you're used to) and now you can provide the full database admin (DBA) package.

Don't buy into the myth of the "uber coder" and think you have to be able to produce a constant stream of code off the top of your head. Everyone Googles stuff, reads manuals, looks up code snippets etc. and you'll just get more efficient with experience.

Thanks. SQL although common would be a small niche as a freelancer. Learning Python at the moment very versatile.

solutionz

589 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2190940 4-Mar-2019 19:47

Kiwifruta:

Thanks. SQL although common would be a small niche as a freelancer. Learning Python at the moment very versatile.

Yeah typically SQL is just one of the tools in the toolkit of a range of roles such as;

Database Administrator
Business Analyst
Data Analyst
Big Data Engineer
Web Developer

So any of those additional skills you can pickup would be helpful.

GreenApples

16 posts

Geek

#2193114 7-Mar-2019 16:04

Does anyone here recommend the ISTQB Foundation Level tester certificate? Would this certificate be able to land an entry level role in a company? Thanks

irongarment

280 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2193162 7-Mar-2019 16:28

GreenApples:
Does anyone here recommend the ISTQB Foundation Level tester certificate? Would this certificate be able to land an entry level role in a company? Thanks

Being able to program would probably be more useful. Seriously, most programmers are self-taught. Most non-programmers are in awe of programmers, because what they do looks like voodoo black magic.

If you don't have an aptitude for programming then getting a certificate won't help. Programmers program. Getting a certificate after you have got into programming might be useful, but probably more useful is a few projects on GitHub, or a tiny app that does something useful (even if it's a copy of an existing app, but you wrote your own version from scratch). Being aware of different aspects of programming, such as file handling and parsing, databases, GUI techniques, OS differences and similarities and so on is more important than having a certificate.

Go ahead and get the certificate, but don't expect it to be a ticket to a job by itself. The first thing the interviewer will ask is what kind of things have you been working on. If it's your first programming job then an acceptable answer is "I made this thing in Python at home because I don't have a programming job yet".

Can you post one thing about a program you have written (or started writing) since you started this thread?

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