Cabinetisation - what does it mean for ADSL2+ users?

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867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187188 3-Jan-2009 16:13

Tend to agree with some of the comments by richms about crosstalk being worse, etc, but assuming the problem is not in the end user's home, there are multiple issues here.

1. What is the requirement for Chorus to provide a line (to Orcon) with a reasonable quality including a reasonable degree of freedom from crosstalk? There is no reason a line with 42.5 db attenuation can't provide a better ADSL line rate than that, but it might not be simple to fix and is it clear who should pay?

2. If the answer is for Orcon to install DSLAM equipment in the Chorus cabinets, have all the issues with Cabinetisation been sorted out? These are certainly not a simple as it might seem and note that many of the documents presented here seem to be quite recent (December 2008 in some cases).
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/IndustryRegulation/Telecommunications/StandardTermsDeterminations/SubloopUCLLservice/DecisionsList.aspx

3. If we go to the Chorus site, we find out that their aim is to provide... "broadband connections between 10Mbps and 20Mbps to 80% of New Zealanders by the end of 2011". http://www.chorus.co.nz/upgrading-the-chorus-network

But does this imply any responsibility not to degrade existing LLU connections?

4. If you are not affected by any of this now, you might be in the near future: http://www.chorus.co.nz/cabinet-notices

Of course, the ISP's must also be aware of this when there are signing people up to their LLU service. Do they simply intend to let the performace degrade for those users (after Cabinetisation), or do they have a plan to maintain a resaonable quality service?

old3eyes

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#187193 3-Jan-2009 16:43

melchizedik: @ Alexx:
Y
I don't know where the Ponsonby exchange is on College Hill, but I have assumed that it is at the top of the hill, hence the 2.6km estimation. Strangely enough when we first came to Auckland we were living at the Viaduct at were getting 8mb/s from Orcon on a regular ADSL line!

From memory the POY exchange is in Summer street off Posonby Road. I'd recheck your distance..

Regards,

Old3eyes

melchizedik

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

#187198 3-Jan-2009 17:01

@ old3eyes:
Right! in that case we are 2km from Summer St which would mean that the d/l speed should certainly be better that I am currently getting.

w2krules

491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187401 4-Jan-2009 22:56

I'm reading this thread with some interest as we're due to be cabinetised next year (2010). But I don't think that you or your ISP have any choice as to whether you're connected to a cabinet as my understanding is that all of the cable pairs for an area would be terminated inside the cabinet and a fibre link used to transfer voice and data back to the exchange.

Someone please tell me if I'm wrong, but I can't see any other way that this can work. Surely Chorus aren't going to leave a few pairs connected to the existing cabling when they install a cabinet? What then happens if that customer decides to change from Orcon?

Anyway, I can't imagine any reason why you wouldn't want to be connected to a cabinet - download speeds will probably increase to about 20 mb/s on ADSL2+. So if Orcon have somehow stopped you from being cabinetised, then I would change to another ISP that uses Telecom Wholesale ASAP until the Commerce Commission have sorted out sub-loop access.

I was a geek before the word was invented!

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187415 5-Jan-2009 00:38

w2krules:
Someone please tell me if I'm wrong, but I can't see any other way that this can work. Surely Chorus aren't going to leave a few pairs connected to the existing cabling when they install a cabinet? What then happens if that customer decides to change from Orcon?

I'm reading the splitters powerpoint document from Chorus (part of the ULL Standard Terms Determination documentation).

Quote: "These schematics show how cables and jumpers are used to connect the Voice services to the Line, where the voice services are delivered from an external source."

The diagrams descriptions include the phrase: "Connection arrangements when... Voice Services provided from the Exchange."

So at least some of the time, Chorus are going to leave cable pairs connected back to the exchange for voice service at least... in fact it would appear that in some cases, most or all of the voice capacity will be via physical cable from the exchange. If there is no Orcon DSLAM installed in the cabinet, then the only logical option is (for Orcon customers), both Voice and ADSL will be provided by the physical cable from the exchange.

w2krules

491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187421 5-Jan-2009 06:36

alexx:
w2krules:
Someone please tell me if I'm wrong, but I can't see any other way that this can work. Surely Chorus aren't going to leave a few pairs connected to the existing cabling when they install a cabinet? What then happens if that customer decides to change from Orcon?

I'm reading the splitters powerpoint document from Chorus (part of the ULL Standard Terms Determination documentation).

Quote: "These schematics show how cables and jumpers are used to connect the Voice services to the Line, where the voice services are delivered from an external source."

The diagrams descriptions include the phrase: "Connection arrangements when... Voice Services provided from the Exchange."

So at least some of the time, Chorus are going to leave cable pairs connected back to the exchange for voice service at least... in fact it would appear that in some cases, most or all of the voice capacity will be via physical cable from the exchange. If there is no Orcon DSLAM installed in the cabinet, then the only logical option is (for Orcon customers), both Voice and ADSL will be provided by the physical cable from the exchange.

Thanks Alexx. But there is a note below the diagram on the left of Slide 4 that states this is the present configuration of the cabinets, so the voice services are provided internally. It appears to me that this Powerpoint is an discussion of how the cabinets can be modified to allow "voice services from an external source", which of course could either mean the exchange, or possibly another cabinet nearby???

So what we are looking at here is allowing the cabinet to be bypassed so that an ISP can continue to deliver services without using the Chorus cabinet? In my case, I have a perfectly adequate ADSL connection of 9 mb/s through Orcon without a cabinet, which is just below the 10 mb/s minimum service that Chorus are aiming to provide.

I was a geek before the word was invented!

sbiddle

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#187423 5-Jan-2009 07:52

Remember that voice services remaining on the NEAX switches is not the long term voice solution it's very much a temporary solution.

Part of the reason for rollout out the NGN is to replace these as they are now very much on their last legs. It's logical to expect in the long term that a large number of Telecom exchanges will disappear once the cabinetisation program is complete and a NGN voice solution deployed.

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melchizedik

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#187564 5-Jan-2009 16:09

I talked with Orcon today about the cabinetisation and they told me that I would not notice any speed diiference when I am on the wholesale service compared to what I was receiving prior to the 11th December (ie around 3mb/s). When I mentioned that the purpose of the cabinetisation was to provide high speed (10 - 20mb/s) to 80% of the country they responded by saying the speed bump would only occur for Telecom customers and no other ISP. I also recall from an earlier conversation that I would be on ADSL1 and not ADSL2 once they put me on the wholesale service. I'm due to go onto the new service on the 12th January.
Does anyone know whether this is actually the case?

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187587 5-Jan-2009 16:47

O.K...so according to the Chorus web-site my Cabinet in Hamilton TRV/N Pukete is now in binding state since Jan 1st 2009. What does this mean for me as an Orcon customer? Do I have to change to Telecom as my ISP to get ADSL2?

Ragnor

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#187598 5-Jan-2009 17:17

If you are on Orcon LLU equipment either wait for sub loop unbundling to be sorted out, or change to an ISP that re-selling adsl2 over Telecom wholesale equipment (pretty much every other ISP other than orcon and vodafone).

richms

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#187645 5-Jan-2009 21:14

Since orcon dont LLU in hamilton yet, you will be on a wholesaled port, but orcon might be stink like xnet and have it needlessly limited to adsl1 speeds.

Richard rich.ms

w2krules

491 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187647 5-Jan-2009 21:34

Well, this looks like a real mess. I'd better make sure that I'm with Telecom, or an ISP that uses Telecom Wholesale, before they start wiring our cabinet. Obviously the LLU ISPs are in a difficult position with this, but I expect my ISP to provide the best possible service as this is one of the main reasons why I'm with Orcon. But if they're not going to give me the option of connecting to a cabinet, even at an additional cost, then I really have little choice other than to change to another ISP.

This may seem like a silly question to some of you, but I assume that the cabinets connect directly to a fibre backbone and not back to the exchange?

I was a geek before the word was invented!

Sounddude

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#187710 6-Jan-2009 09:02

richms: Since orcon dont LLU in hamilton yet, you will be on a wholesaled port, but orcon might be stink like xnet and have it needlessly limited to adsl1 speeds.

ISP's don't get a choice on Telecom Wholesale. If the customer is on a ASDL1 exchange then you get ADSL1, if they are connected to an ADSL2+ exchange, then you get ADSL2+.

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek

#187753 6-Jan-2009 12:30

I rang Telecom help desk who informed me my closest cabinet (which according to Chorus web-site went into binding state on Jan 1 2009) is not online yet and won't be until April 2009. So I'm guessing I'll be no better off until ADSL2 becomes available on this cabinet as I'll still be connected to the exchange 3.5km away regardless of who my ISP's are?

DjShadow

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#187763 6-Jan-2009 12:57

if you goto www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps there is a tool there you can use to see what cabinet your on, it will say the date your expected to be upgraded but it doesn't seem that accurate. Eg We're due to go onto a cabinet around 1 April this year but that site is saying we're not going onto one until July

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