How to verify DSL signal at demarcation box?

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Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#110740 15-Oct-2012 14:03

Hi there,
First post - apologies if I haven't put this in the right place. This forum seems like a very knowledgable place, and a good place to start for what I'm asking about.

I recently moved into a unit (one of two) and signed up for naked DSL with FYX. Everything was going spiffingly until the connection dropped out this time last week (Monday afternoon).
I hadn't changed anything at home, the setup was completely untouched. So I rang the ISP who told me that apparently the service is getting to my address, and there weren't any problems from their end. But they tried 'refreshing the ports' or something anyway, which had no effect. So they logged a fault with Chorus who apparently did pretty much the exact same thing.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if it's something gone wacky at home, even though I hadn't touched a thing. So I borrowed another modem/router off a friend, and the DSL wasn't getting to that either (the DSL indicator LED did not light up). I tried a filter and another cable, to no effect. I tried the other 2 jack points in the house, to no effect.

I found the demarcation box inside a cupboard attached to the house - it looks like the box mentioned in the OP of this thread: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=102654.

I would like to verify that I'm getting some sort of DSL signal there. How do I go about doing this? What signals do I want to see on a multimeter? (Maybe the ISP has already verified that I am getting a signal by using the 'test terminator'?)

Is there a way I can connect my router directly to this box, to bypass the potentially faulty internal wiring?

Thanks for your help :)
Josh

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Vocus

#701474 15-Oct-2012 14:08

It's naked so, don't use any filters. Filters are for phones only on phone+DSL service lines.

You are getting no DSL sync at all?

You're not supposed to open up the demarc box yourself. What a tech would do is wire a pair up to the incoming pair and terminate the other end on an RJ9 jack to plug into the modem.

Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#701496 15-Oct-2012 14:32

I only used the filter so I could test the router using the only other cable I had (RJ9-RJ9).

Not getting any DSL sync at all.

OK, forget verifying the DSL signal - what about checking that the internal house wiring is OK? How can I do that without opening up the demarc box, if the wiring stems from there?
Black/Yellow/White/Brown are the colours going into the demarc, plus a 2-wire cable (power of some sort?). Coming out is the white cable that heads to the telephone jacks (and disappears into a tight space).

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#701526 15-Oct-2012 15:09

Fidelius: I only used the filter so I could test the router using the only other cable I had (RJ9-RJ9).

Not getting any DSL sync at all.

OK, forget verifying the DSL signal - what about checking that the internal house wiring is OK? How can I do that without opening up the demarc box, if the wiring stems from there?
Black/Yellow/White/Brown are the colours going into the demarc, plus a 2-wire cable (power of some sort?). Coming out is the white cable that heads to the telephone jacks (and disappears into a tight space).

There's some techs on this forum who would be able to have a look for you.

I would suggest that first you push back on your ISP. Do you have wiring maintenance on your plan?

Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#701530 15-Oct-2012 15:16

No, I don't have wiring maintenance :/

FYX Naked states: No maintenace is able to be paid and charges will be incurred should there be a fault on the line.

^ This is the reason I want to have a look myself - so I don't get slapped with a $235 fee if there's something wrong internally...

coffeebaron

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#701535 15-Oct-2012 15:21

@fidelius,

If you are in Auckland or Waikato, I can check your wiring and install a master splitter or do a VoIP capable physical separation of your home wiring.

Flick me a PM / email if you would like some info & pricing.

Regardless of where the fault lies, having your internal wiring sorted is essential to get the most out of today's ADSL2+ or VDSL broadband connections.

Cheers
Fraser

Rural IT and Broadband support.

Broadband troubleshooting and master filter installs.
Starlink installer - one month free: https://www.starlink.com/?referral=RC-32845-88860-71
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Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com

B1GGLZ

1961 posts

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#701541 15-Oct-2012 15:35

Fidelius: Hi there,
So I rang the ISP who told me that apparently the service is getting to my address, and there weren't any problems from their end. But they tried 'refreshing the ports' or something anyway, which had no effect. So they logged a fault with Chorus who apparently did pretty much the exact same thing.
Josh

Seems strange to me they could verify it's getting to your address if they didn't check at the junction box. Unless they physically check at the box then I would think they can only tell its getting as far as your exchange. Could easily be a line fault between the exchange (or cabinet) and your box? Shouldn't be any charge for checking at the box as they are responsible to that point. You are only responsible for internal wiring and given the sudden dropout sounds like an exchange fault. If they check it out at the box then they will say if it's their problem or yours.
I had a similar problem back in 2008 and lightning strike nearby had fried my cable out in the street. They had to swap me to another pair that was still OK which took a few days. Ask them to check again as your paying for the service which is no longer working.

B1GGLZ

1961 posts

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#701542 15-Oct-2012 15:39

coffeebaron: @fidelius,

Regardless of where the fault lies, having your internal wiring sorted is essential to get the most out of today's ADSL2+ or VDSL broadband connections.

Cheers
Fraser

+1
I installed a master splitter at the junction box and rewired the house with cat 6 cable and double rj45 sockets (one for Phone and one for ADSL). Big improvement over the use of filters at each socket.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#701550 15-Oct-2012 15:58

B1GGLZ:
Seems strange to me they could verify it's getting to your address if they didn't check at the junction box. Unless they physically check at the box then I would think they can only tell its getting as far as your exchange. Could easily be a line fault between the exchange (or cabinet) and your box?

Hi B1GGLZ - thanks for that info.
I'm not sure exactly where they checked my connection, but they seemed confident it was being delivered to my address - though they couldn't pick up my router (strangely!).

B1GGLZ:Shouldn't be any charge for checking at the box as they are responsible to that point. You are only responsible for internal wiring and given the sudden dropout sounds like an exchange fault. If they check it out at the box then they will say if it's their problem or yours.

I suspect I will get slapped with a callout fee if the connection is proved faultless from the exchange to the demarcation box... need a Chorus rep to confirm this!

ajobbins

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#701551 15-Oct-2012 15:59

B1GGLZ: Seems strange to me they could verify it's getting to your address if they didn't check at the junction box. Unless they physically check at the box then I would think they can only tell its getting as far as your exchange.

Assume they would have had the ISAM run a SELT test on the line, which will confirm approximate line length and should pick up any major impediments. If the line was roughly the right length they may see that result as OK - but it may have been cut very close to the premises (any roadworks going on nearby) so the ISAM can still 'see' a good length of active line out of the exchange.

Twitter: ajobbins

Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#701556 15-Oct-2012 16:00

ajobbins:If the line was roughly the right length they may see that result as OK - but it may have been cut very close to the premises (any roadworks going on nearby) so the ISAM can still 'see' a good length of active line out of the exchange.

No roadworks going on nearby :/

Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#701621 15-Oct-2012 17:08

I've rung the ISP, and explained the issue (again). The CS Rep was very helpful, and explained that chorus shouldn't just done some fiddling at the exchange, they should have come out to the address. He's amended my ticket and I should get a call from a tech in the next few days.

B1GGLZ

1961 posts

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#701662 15-Oct-2012 17:51

Fidelius: chorus shouldn't just done some fiddling at the exchange, they should have come out to the address.

Precisely what I would have expected.

ajobbins

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#701665 15-Oct-2012 17:59

Although you won't be able to hear a dial tone and shouldn't be able to see any voltage on the line, there should be some obvious resistance if there is a circuit in place.

If there is any voltage on the line this may be interfering with the DSLs abilty to sync.

I recently lost sync on my Naked DSL line. The cause was 25 volts of foreign battery on the A and B legs of the circuit - enough to cause total loss of sync.

A SELT test appeared normal, it wasn't until the tech visited me and found voltage on the line. Turns out some nearby builders had put something corrosive on/near the lines coming in from the street to our apartment building - some of the lines had partially melted together

Twitter: ajobbins

Fidelius

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#701897 16-Oct-2012 09:09

Chorus tech came round this morning, and connected the little signal generator thing to test the connectivity to the road / cabinet.
Everything was OK to the road (phew!), and he trotted off to the cabinet for 5 mins, and came back explaining that something wasn't right and that someone had messed something up at the cabinet, but he'd put it right and I should be getting connection. Which I was! :D

Thanks for your help team :)
Now to get some compensation!

insane

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#701904 16-Oct-2012 09:35

Fidelius: Chorus tech came round this morning, and connected the little signal generator thing to test the connectivity to the road / cabinet.
Everything was OK to the road (phew!), and he trotted off to the cabinet for 5 mins, and came back explaining that something wasn't right and that someone had messed something up at the cabinet, but he'd put it right and I should be getting connection. Which I was! :D

Thanks for your help team :)
Now to get some compensation!

Did you get stung with an initial 'no fault found' fee? If so PM me your username and I'll make sure that goes away :)

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