New House build

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Avatarz

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#173555 27-May-2015 14:07

Considering and getting excited about looking into building a new house on our property in the waikato.

So many options but the thought it to go with one of the home build companies.

At this stage looking at

GJ Gardiner
Signature Homes
Jennian

But also wondering about others such as
A1 Homes
Latitude homes

Reading a lot about pitfalls, dodgy builders and contractors etc so something to be aware of, but any advice or recommendations on who to use?

I see bad experiences stories around the place so will avoid those guys.

We'd be looking at the removal of the existing home and building new.

Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks

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20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1312760 27-May-2015 14:16

If you go down the building francise company route to do everything, may end up with a pretty average looking building that isn't designed to the conditions, built to the minimum building standards, and the most basic spec. I would suggest talking to an architect, or someone who can design you something stunning, and is well insulated. You can still use building francises to build it for you, but it also allows you to get quotes from other companies for the same design, so you are really comparing apples with apples, rather than apples with bananas. It does depend on how important the home is to you. I would also be wary of building materials, and make sure that they are all healthy ones that don't offgas.

wellygary

8328 posts

Uber Geek

#1312763 27-May-2015 14:20

What ever you end up doing, Install structured wiring and make sure you put in more Cat 6 cabling than you ever think you will need

, The last thing you ever want in 3 years time is "gee I wished I had run cabling to X" moment...

Niel

3267 posts

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#1312982 27-May-2015 18:02

We went with GJ in East Auckland. The house is fine, it is customized to the measurements and style we wanted, but the build quality is surprisingly average and anything you want better is at RRP + 20%. Can't believe we paid $70 extra per power point. The contractors get paid minimal, they make their money from the extras. The franchisee is guaranteed his money, and it is not necessarily managed as well as the contract implies especially with fixing things during the 1 year "maintenance" period. Ours lasted 2 years with everything done as late as possible, they move on to the next job and give you minimal attention.

If we do it again, we'd probably go with Signature or maybe Latitude or move up to the higher quality companies. Would probably also only get them to lock-up stage and organize the finishing myself.

You can never have enough Volvos!

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#1312990 27-May-2015 18:13

Niel: We went with GJ in East Auckland. The house is fine, it is customized to the measurements and style we wanted, but the build quality is surprisingly average and anything you want better is at RRP + 20%. Can't believe we paid $70 extra per power point. The contractors get paid minimal, they make their money from the extras. The franchisee is guaranteed his money, and it is not necessarily managed as well as the contract implies especially with fixing things during the 1 year "maintenance" period. Ours lasted 2 years with everything done as late as possible, they move on to the next job and give you minimal attention.

If we do it again, we'd probably go with Signature or maybe Latitude or move up to the higher quality companies. Would probably also only get them to lock-up stage and organize the finishing myself.

The thing is that builders and subbies make a bigger margin than 20%, as they buy stuff at trade price, not RRP, and can also get rebates for some things. Getting it to lockup stage is a good idea. Most pof the finsihing, you can save a huge amount by DIYing, and buying yourself at trade.

My biggest piece of advice is to make sure everything is fully spec'd, before hand, and don't make any changes once building begins. If you aren't sure on something, spec for the more expensive option, as if you chose a less expensive option in the end, the builder can credit you back the difference. Any changes that upspec something, or modifying something, will add dramatically to the price, as you really have no option to pay for them if you want them making eg. there is no competition as you can't then get anheter builder in to quote for the changes.

Guv

94 posts

Master Geek

#1312991 27-May-2015 18:14

Have a look at these guys - have been impressed with their show homes for many years and if/when we build we are likely to go with them

http://www.loganhomes.co.nz/

scuwp

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1312992 27-May-2015 18:19

Always allow more time and money, and you can never have too many power points. Otherwise settle in for an exciting and rewarding ride. I have seen too many GJ disasters to ever be able to recommend them, but they may have changed. Have built 2 homes with Jennian, but do like the look and quality of Logan homes. For a first build a full contract deal is probably the best idea IMO

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Niel

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#1313016 27-May-2015 19:05

mattwnz:
Niel: We went with GJ in East Auckland. The house is fine, it is customized to the measurements and style we wanted, but the build quality is surprisingly average and anything you want better is at RRP + 20%. Can't believe we paid $70 extra per power point. The contractors get paid minimal, they make their money from the extras. The franchisee is guaranteed his money, and it is not necessarily managed as well as the contract implies especially with fixing things during the 1 year "maintenance" period. Ours lasted 2 years with everything done as late as possible, they move on to the next job and give you minimal attention.

If we do it again, we'd probably go with Signature or maybe Latitude or move up to the higher quality companies. Would probably also only get them to lock-up stage and organize the finishing myself.

The thing is that builders and subbies make a bigger margin than 20%, as they buy stuff at trade price, not RRP, and can also get rebates for some things. Getting it to lockup stage is a good idea. Most pof the finsihing, you can save a huge amount by DIYing, and buying yourself at trade.

My biggest piece of advice is to make sure everything is fully spec'd, before hand, and don't make any changes once building begins. If you aren't sure on something, spec for the more expensive option, as if you chose a less expensive option in the end, the builder can credit you back the difference. Any changes that upspec something, or modifying something, will add dramatically to the price, as you really have no option to pay for them if you want them making eg. there is no competition as you can't then get anheter builder in to quote for the changes.

Yes, my point was they charge RRP + 20% which is at least double what it cost if you shop around and DIY.

100% on the dot, get all your details right before you start.

You can never have enough Volvos!

Quic Broadband

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Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1313021 27-May-2015 19:22

mattwnz:
Niel: We went with GJ in East Auckland. The house is fine, it is customized to the measurements and style we wanted, but the build quality is surprisingly average and anything you want better is at RRP + 20%. Can't believe we paid $70 extra per power point. The contractors get paid minimal, they make their money from the extras. The franchisee is guaranteed his money, and it is not necessarily managed as well as the contract implies especially with fixing things during the 1 year "maintenance" period. Ours lasted 2 years with everything done as late as possible, they move on to the next job and give you minimal attention.

If we do it again, we'd probably go with Signature or maybe Latitude or move up to the higher quality companies. Would probably also only get them to lock-up stage and organize the finishing myself.

The thing is that builders and subbies make a bigger margin than 20%, as they buy stuff at trade price, not RRP, and can also get rebates for some things. Getting it to lockup stage is a good idea. Most pof the finsihing, you can save a huge amount by DIYing, and buying yourself at trade.

My biggest piece of advice is to make sure everything is fully spec'd, before hand, and don't make any changes once building begins. If you aren't sure on something, spec for the more expensive option, as if you chose a less expensive option in the end, the builder can credit you back the difference. Any changes that upspec something, or modifying something, will add dramatically to the price, as you really have no option to pay for them if you want them making eg. there is no competition as you can't then get anheter builder in to quote for the changes.

Doubt that the subbies are all making 20%+ margins. The builder will be adding their own margin onto the invoices from the subbies. Meaning alot of the extra cost is just ticket clipping.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1313022 27-May-2015 19:22

mattwnz:
Niel: We went with GJ in East Auckland. The house is fine, it is customized to the measurements and style we wanted, but the build quality is surprisingly average and anything you want better is at RRP + 20%. Can't believe we paid $70 extra per power point. The contractors get paid minimal, they make their money from the extras. The franchisee is guaranteed his money, and it is not necessarily managed as well as the contract implies especially with fixing things during the 1 year "maintenance" period. Ours lasted 2 years with everything done as late as possible, they move on to the next job and give you minimal attention.

If we do it again, we'd probably go with Signature or maybe Latitude or move up to the higher quality companies. Would probably also only get them to lock-up stage and organize the finishing myself.

The thing is that builders and subbies make a bigger margin than 20%, as they buy stuff at trade price, not RRP, and can also get rebates for some things. Getting it to lockup stage is a good idea. Most pof the finsihing, you can save a huge amount by DIYing, and buying yourself at trade.

My biggest piece of advice is to make sure everything is fully spec'd, before hand, and don't make any changes once building begins. If you aren't sure on something, spec for the more expensive option, as if you chose a less expensive option in the end, the builder can credit you back the difference. Any changes that upspec something, or modifying something, will add dramatically to the price, as you really have no option to pay for them if you want them making eg. there is no competition as you can't then get anheter builder in to quote for the changes.

Doubt that the subbies are all making 20%+ margins. The builder will be adding their own margin onto the invoices from the subbies. Meaning alot of the extra cost is just ticket clipping.

billgates

4705 posts

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#1313031 27-May-2015 19:34

I will be hopefully starting a build in coming months in Hamilton once my floor plans are finalized and I have decided on the builder. Have been researching about building companies and which products/materials to use in Hamilton for the past 8 months. Below is my OneNote list of build materials and ideas that I have presented to 4 builders. I have read through various threads about house build pro tips etc at Geekzone, Whirlpool AU and Home One AU. forum Long post so enjoy :-)

I will be creating my own house build thread on geekzone once I finalize on the floor plan and get fellow geeks opinion of what is good or bad in the design or the build material selection.

The three below links have helped me a lot with my build/materials list.

1. www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=151045

2. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/138

3. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1614240 (Page 17 in particular)

4. http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5823&start=620 (Post from Pepsi_Drinker)

5. www.ourdreamhome.co.nz (I have picked most of my build materials ideas from this blog. This couple are building a top notch home and the bloke won The Block competition in 2012 on TV3). He is very helpful and will answer all your questions in any of his blog posts.

I have approached Jennian, GJ Gardner, Downey in terms of Group builders and Urban Home as an independent builder. I have decided to stick with Jennian and GJ Gardner and dropped Downey due to various reasons and thus selected Urban Homes as backup plan if both Jennian and GJ fail to deliver on the floor plan with me wanting to bring my build material and cost. Both Jennian and GJ Gardner have been excellent. The notion that all group building companies will only build a cookie clutter house is plain wrong. Both Jennian and GJ Gardner in Hamilton are open to me supplying a whole lot of build materials like carpet, tiles, insulation, cabling, LED lights, appliances, electrician, window/door joinery/glass, vanity for bathroom, tapware, showerheads etc and lots more to my liking of a supplier if they cannot supply the exact same product for same cost or cheaper. I made this very clear in my 1st meeting with all building companies I talked to. Both GJ Gardner and Jennian in Hamilton also have a in house architecht/draughtsperson who have designed (many iterations done with many meetings) a custom house design to my liking after I emailed them both several exterior looks of housing I found online and they both designed one according to that taste.

Because I am going to control the build quality material brand and model, the house cannot be built to a minimum standard spec. I am going to be building a double story house that will be close to 360sqm so it will be completely up spec'd but you can get the idea of which material to use. I read through on the material type over several months and in the end decided on them. www.ourdreamhome.co.nz also helped a lot in deciding as the bloke had used a lot of that material during the competition so knows the quality of fit and finish first hand. A good up specd house will cost you $2000/sqm. Really good will cost you $2500/sqm

Two storey modern style/design house with 5 bedrooms (2 master bedroom ensuite's with both having LARGE walk in wardrobe's, 1 on ground floor and second on first floor), 1 family, 1 lounge, (1 home cinema min 7m x 5m x 2.7m), 1 office and 3 car garage.
A large walk in scullery/pantry near the kitchen while also having a sink in there as well as well as the main kitchen. Window in the scullery/pantry as well.
Bosch or Fisher & Paykel appliances in the kitchen only like induction hob, dishwasher, rangehood and oven.
First floor master bedroom to have an outdoor deck/alfresco also with Eurostacker door with LevelStep Sill from Rylock.
Separate toilet and bathroom on first floor and a toilet on ground floor. Both toilets to be little spacious than usual size with wash basin's built in.
Carpets in all rooms including home cinema and laminated timber everywhere else including kitchen and first floor gallery/hallways. Tiles in all the toilets, bathrooms across the house.
Wardrobes in bedrooms to be spacious and the showers in the master bedrooms and guest bathrooms to be open access with no door to open/close (tiled/stoned? instead of glass). Rain showers in all bathrooms.
Viridian Planitherm Low-E glass for Windows (thermal broken) and Pacific Thermal suite window frames from Rylock.
Maximized/Full floor to ceiling size windows on the north side for passive heating
Big size frame windows in all bedrooms including 1 master bedroom in ground floor.
Full size floor to ceiling Eurostacker door for rear of the house on ground floor with LevelStep Sill from Rylock
Windows by the kitchen wall (2 or 4 windows). Prefer to have kitchen at rear of the house near family room.
Lots of Windows in general around the whole house on both floors.
Zone 2 insulation level including garage throughout the house. R3.2 in walls and R4.1 in ceilings.
2 x 10mm standard GIB's (extra layer of GIB glued together) on each side of the stud wall in all bedroom's + solid core doors with acoustic seals. All bedrooms to have insulation on all side of the walls be it internal or external facing.
Home cinema room to be built with double stud wall with 2 x 16mm fyreline GIB's (extra layer of GIB glued together) on each outer side of the stud walls + 2 x solid core doors with acoustic seals. One door to open inside and another door to open outside facing opposite of each other.
Minimum 2.7M stud height across the entire ground floor and (max height allowed on first floor)
2 bedrooms (including 1 master bedroom with ensuite), office, home cinema, lounge, kitchen and family rooms to be on ground floor. 1 master bedroom with ensuite, 2 bedroom's to be on first floor
Phone/Data (Cat6 category cables only)/TV to every room including family, lounge, kitchen and scullery/pantry. Bedroom's to have 4 x data/Ethernet ports (1 by each bedside and 2 on the front wall facing the bed with TV port next to it). Kitchen will have 1 data/Ethernet ports. 1 data/Ethernet port in scullery/pantry, 4 x data/Ethernet ports in family room and 4 data/Ethernet in living. Office will have 8 data/Ethernet ports near the table. 1 x data/Ethernet port to be installed at front roof ceiling of house for security camera/cctv. 1 x data/Ethernet port to be installed on ground floor ceiling in middle of house for wireless access point and 1 x data/Ethernet port to be installed on first floor ceiling in middle of house for WiFi unit. 3 data/Ethernet ports in the garage with 1 port on front facing wall of garage entry, 1 on left and 1 on right side of the wall. 48 data ports in total.
1 x 4 port power outlet by each bedside in every bedroom and 2 x 4 port power outlet on the front wall facing the bed with 1 power outlet on left side of the front wall and other on right side of front wall). 3 x 4 port power outlet in family room with each power outlet on one side of the wall and kitchen end of the family room wall will have 2 x 2 port power outlet near the induction cooktop with each 2 port power outlet to left and right of it. 2 x 2 port power outlet on the kitchen island with each being on left and right side of the island. 2 x 2 port power outlet in the scullery/pantry with each power port being on left and right side. 2 x 2 port power outlet in each bathroom with each power port outlet being on left and right side of mirror/ wash basins. 3 x 2 port power outlet in garage with each power port outlet being next to data/Ethernet ports in the wall.
Home cinema room to have 7.1CH cabling pre-wired (12AWG only) with 1 x data/Ethernet port on left and right wall at back, 4x data/Ethernet port at front wall at bottom/middle alignment of the wall and 2 x data ports at the back wall with 1 being left and 1 being right at bottom alignment.
Family room to be pre-wired for 5.1CH cabling (12AWG only)
The home cinema room (7m x 5m x 2.7) will have no windows because I want to mount a projector screen, projector and have a riser built for the second row of seating for height adjustment in front of the front row seating. Home cinema room will also need a soffit built around the perimeter of the ceiling.
Designated wardrobe in office as a media cupboard so I will run all data/Ethernet/7.1CH/5.1CH wall plates/cabling back to there. This will be the server/communications cupboard. This wardrobe will have 5 x 6 port power outlets and the 7.1CH wall plate which will connect to the home cinema room. Home cinema room and office will need to be next to each other.
Pre-wiring (12 or 14 AWG only) also needs to be done for 2 x speakers (3m+ apart from each other) in outdoor alfresco/patio on ground floor which will run back to the media cupboard/wardrobe in office.
2 x external power outlets on each side of the wall outside. 1 outlet at front of house and 1 at back of house on each wall. Also need 2 x external power outlets at the very front of the house by gates/ driveway entry. 2 x external power outlets to the back of very house where it ends near the ravine. Power cables also need to be run by the ravine end for future purpose of building a deck on the ravine where the section ends if the 2 x external power outlets listed before at back of very house where the ravine is if it cannot be tapped/piggy backed into.
HVAC throughout the house with controlled zones so we can turn ON/OFF heat/cold air according to the rooms that needs it or not including home cinema room. Individual control to turn off/on selected room/s or not for HVAC is important.
LED lighting for both inside and outside of the house.
Drains in the floor in wet areas. Bathroom, laundry, and kitchen.
Extra storage space cupboards on both ground and first floor.
Family and Kitchen to be together in the floor plan at very back of the house by the rear Eurostacker door with LevelStep from Rylock.
Living and Family to be together in the floor plan.
140mm x 45mm framing for walls (580mm R3.2 insulation to be used between them)
Laundry, bathrooms, toilets and all bedrooms to have R3.2 insulation between walls to suppress sound.
Single powerpoint behind all toilets in house for bidet seat.
ColourSteel Endura 0.55mm long run roofing.
Solar PV install. Enphase M250 micro inverters with LG Mono X Black panels (270W) 4.32kW.
32mm conduits for future cabling. All required cabling to be run outside of the conduits.

Do whatever you want to do man.

Disrespective

1926 posts

Uber Geek

#1313044 27-May-2015 19:52

I've said this before on here but I'll say it again:

Audition your potential designers. They will give you an initial sketch design for free, and probably a follow up meeting. You can then decide to progress with whomever you think is going to work best for you. All the bulk home builders are going to be cheaper than an architect in regards to fees. My office normally charges about 12% of the build cost and we wouldn't get down much below $3500 per square meter excluding our fees. Bulk home builders can do a 'high end' home for about $2200 per square meter and that includes their fees.

Any variations to the contract will cost you money. And a fair bit of a premium, too because it wasn't part of the initial tender cost. Make sure you have everything already chosen and you'll be OK. Changes are at your peril...

Happy to discuss architectural options more if you like but i'm no expert on bulk home builders i'm afraid.

disclaimer: am an architect

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1313205 27-May-2015 23:53

Disrespective: I've said this before on here but I'll say it again:

Audition your potential designers. They will give you an initial sketch design for free, and probably a follow up meeting. You can then decide to progress with whomever you think is going to work best for you. All the bulk home builders are going to be cheaper than an architect in regards to fees. My office normally charges about 12% of the build cost and we wouldn't get down much below $3500 per square meter excluding our fees. Bulk home builders can do a 'high end' home for about $2200 per square meter and that includes their fees.

Any variations to the contract will cost you money. And a fair bit of a premium, too because it wasn't part of the initial tender cost. Make sure you have everything already chosen and you'll be OK. Changes are at your peril...

Happy to discuss architectural options more if you like but i'm no expert on bulk home builders i'm afraid.

disclaimer: am an architect

If you go to a typical francise building company, there is a disconnect between the client and the designer. So the design is not really a big part of it. Infact many won't have an architect on staff, and will likely be just have a draftsman for making slight modifications to standard plans they have in their books. With some companies, many of the designs can just be extruded plans topped with a hipped roof, which is often pressed metal tile. There are a few though that have more imaginative designs though.

Not all architect designed houses are going to be at 3.5k though. Some architects specialise in lower cost solutions. An architectually designed house I am heavily involved in, and is currently under construction now, the build cost works out at around 2k per sqm . It is largely two simple forms with a bridge , timber framed with trusses, and Coloursteel and cedar cladding.Quotes were sourced from both franchise builders, and independent ones, and the independent ones were quite a bit cheaper. Not only that, but franchise builders wanted to use their own standard materials, rather than those specified.

Niel

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#1313225 28-May-2015 07:16

Correct, the subbies don't get the RRP + 20%. They get a cut of it and guaranteed work from the franchisee, but don't get much. Most goes to the franchisee.

With GJ in East Auckland the sales guy was great, and note that I don't like sales guys so that says a lot coming from me. The build went fairly smooth, it was the first time we experienced a house build in NZ. No issues with anything we wanted to do/supply ourselves, they install it too without charging extra as long as told them at contract signing. The issue was for example that if something goes wring like the driveway concrete guy did not remove the polystyrene from the cesspit after he finished, then it would take 7 months (over winter) before they came out to remove the polystyrene. In the mean time our driveway was flooding all the time. I also gave up and removed half of the concrete boxing myself so that we could get on with the garden. All this was after we had moved in. Cement smear was left on brickwork and it took 2 years to find a solution, which was just a matter of finding the correct paint. The guy that started applying the paint did a slow and rough job, so I convinced him I'll do it as long as he gets me the paint. He was trying to spot apply it, instead he should have just painted the whole bricks which is actually faster and looks better. It took me 20 minutes to finish. I just can't stand that kind of incompetence, people need to take pride in their work. They do however do a great job of the things that really matter, like structural stuff and tiling. Those are things that are hard to fix afterwards.

You can never have enough Volvos!

Stan

929 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1313787 29-May-2015 00:12

Avatarz: Considering and getting excited about looking into building a new house on our property in the waikato.

So many options but the thought it to go with one of the home build companies.

At this stage looking at

GJ Gardiner
Signature Homes
Jennian

But also wondering about others such as
A1 Homes
Latitude homes

Reading a lot about pitfalls, dodgy builders and contractors etc so something to be aware of, but any advice or recommendations on who to use?

I see bad experiences stories around the place so will avoid those guys.

We'd be looking at the removal of the existing home and building new.

Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks

I can vouch for branderson homes they built my house 2 years back there subcontractors where fantastic and they gave me a 100% fixed price finished the build at the exact price they quoted me.
Not to mention they use elephant board as opposed to GIB, double nog all the walls and generally built the house to last. Subcontractors were good to very tidy.

Price was very reasonable too.

I believe they can arrange for an old house to be removed too worth checking them out.

Avatarz

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1313800 29-May-2015 06:52

Wow, some great feedback and information. All very much appreciated.

Definitely going to look and visit both Logan homes and Branderson. Never heard of them but worth looking into after the recommendations.

Also keen to see what Lattitude is all about too.

Have a friend that has been involved in building projects so once I get a feel for what we want to who to go through can bounce all the details off him and get him to look into the finer details.

Great start, thank you.

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