LED Downlights - can it be covered with insulation?

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samgdan

160 posts

Master Geek

#272618 5-Jul-2020 21:48

Hi everyone,

I have some LED Downlights installed in my house and i noticed that they have been fully covered with the pink batt insulation.
Is that ok? I noticed the LED Downlights lights get just a bit hot and the insulation is touching it. I concern about the possibility of a fire.

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1410 posts

Uber Geek

#2517740 5-Jul-2020 21:55

Do you know the brand/model of downlight or do you know what rating is attached to them? seperate driver? is the driver also covered?

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2517741 5-Jul-2020 22:05

LED downlights can be covered under insulation if the manufacturer specifies it. You will need to check your model LED downlights to see whether they should be covered under insulation or not.

Do whatever you want to do man.

samgdan

160 posts

Master Geek

#2517743 5-Jul-2020 22:11

So far i found three types. Two as per below the third one is Philips

samgdan

160 posts

Master Geek

#2517744 5-Jul-2020 22:12

snnet:
Do you know the brand/model of downlight or do you know what rating is attached to them? seperate driver? is the driver also covered?

There's one rectangular box attached to the lights (drivers?)
That's not covered but its sitting on the insulation.

robjg63

4098 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2517746 5-Jul-2020 22:13

Some are made to be (and safe to be) covered and some are not.

If they were not designed to be covered then you could have problems.

This page gives a summary of some of the terms that are used (e.g you might see that a fitting is labelled IP44 and IC-F):

https://greenled.co.nz/content/6-what-is-ip-rating-and-ic-rating-of-recessed-downlights

IP 44 means:

4 Protected against solid objects over 1.0mm 4 Protected against splash water from any direction.

IC-F:

Type IC-F recessed luminaire where building insulation that can safely be exposed continuously to 90°C may abut or cover the luminaire. Resistant to ingress of external matter.

If you can find out the details of your lights then you can check them out.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

snnet

1410 posts

Uber Geek

#2517748 5-Jul-2020 22:17

Switch is fine to cover along with the driver, (we put truckloads of these in and have a good relationship with the company, great product made in NZ for NZ conditions). Most of their models can also be installed touching timber.

A quick search of the second one suggests it has an IC-4 rating allowing it to be covered and abutted also

You've mentioned pink batts, so just for anyone else reading this later these ratings are not applicable to certain types of insulation and it's best to check beforehand (pink batts is fine)

robjg63

4098 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2517749 5-Jul-2020 22:17

Usually its not good for the driver to be under the insulation - so it sounds like someone has done the right thing there.

You can probably assume that the actual fitting is ok to be covered.

If you can see any markings on the fitting you can try and check the details/codes on the page I linked to.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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samgdan

160 posts

Master Geek

#2517752 5-Jul-2020 22:24

snnet:
Switch is fine to cover along with the driver, (we put truckloads of these in and have a good relationship with the company, great product made in NZ for NZ conditions). Most of their models can also be installed touching timber.

A quick search of the second one suggests it has an IC-4 rating allowing it to be covered and abutted also

You've mentioned pink batts, so just for anyone else reading this later these ratings are not applicable to certain types of insulation and it's best to check beforehand (pink batts is fine)

Side photo of the second one.

samgdan

160 posts

Master Geek

#2517754 5-Jul-2020 22:28

robjg63:
Some are made to be (and safe to be) covered and some are not.

If they were not designed to be covered then you could have problems.

This page gives a summary of some of the terms that are used (e.g you might see that a fitting is labelled IP44 and IC-F):

https://greenled.co.nz/content/6-what-is-ip-rating-and-ic-rating-of-recessed-downlights

IP 44 means:

4 Protected against solid objects over 1.0mm 4 Protected against splash water from any direction.

IC-F:

Type IC-F recessed luminaire where building insulation that can safely be exposed continuously to 90°C may abut or cover the luminaire. Resistant to ingress of external matter.

If you can find out the details of your lights then you can check them out.

Thank you for the very informative post.

snnet

1410 posts

Uber Geek

#2517755 5-Jul-2020 22:28

Cool, their ratings suggest they can be covered by pink batts - how hot are you talking though? The only concern I would have is that the second one is a bunnings brand and in the past they've had a few recalls.. The lights can get warm, but if they are too hot to touch you should probably discuss with Bunnings or whoever supplied them to you

samgdan

160 posts

Master Geek

#2517756 5-Jul-2020 22:32

snnet:
Cool, their ratings suggest they can be covered by pink batts - how hot are you talking though? The only concern I would have is that the second one is a bunnings brand and in the past they've had a few recalls.. The lights can get warm, but if they are too hot to touch you should probably discuss with Bunnings or whoever supplied them to you

Unsure where they come from, they were in the house already. Not really hot i can easily touch it for a long time without any issues, myy concern is more the pink batts as i don't know if they are easy to catch on fire.
I might put some pink batts tomorrow on fire and see if it does burn fast.

snnet

1410 posts

Uber Geek

#2517757 5-Jul-2020 22:39

Ah, should be fine then

Pink batts don't really catch fire too easily as you'll find out, they tend to kind of melt in the area a fire would start - of course they will burn with an accelerant or strong flames from elsewhere

Bung

6489 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2517787 6-Jul-2020 08:03

Years ago I recall a discussion at work about how hot some transistors were on a heatsink. A comment was made that most people regard a temp about 45C as very hot and the transistors could easily cope with 100C. As an experiment we heated some water in a pot and tried the touch test at some of the mid range temps shown in following chart.

Pasted from https://www.jm.com/en/blog/2015/february/too-hot-to-handle/

AklBen

102 posts

Master Geek

#2517803 6-Jul-2020 09:12

At our previous place before getting on the property train our landlords had to replace the lighting through the house because insulation was not able to cover the older recessed light fittings which resulted in a perfect square of mould growing around the lights...

Tracer

343 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2518211 6-Jul-2020 21:13

Bung: Years ago I recall a discussion at work about how hot some transistors were on a heatsink. A comment was made that most people regard a temp about 45C as very hot and the transistors could easily cope with 100C. As an experiment we heated some water in a pot and tried the touch test at some of the mid range temps shown in following chart.

Pasted from https://www.jm.com/en/blog/2015/february/too-hot-to-handle/

How hot you perceive things by touch depends on how thermally conductive the surface is too.

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