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beforenightfalls

185 posts

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#62240 2-Jun-2010 10:08
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the house we moved into late last year came with what seems to be quite a good fujitsu heat pump in the lounge area. we had been using it in the evenings and mornings (turned off at night), but over the last month more throughout the day as well. our power usuage shot up by an extra 500 units for one month. the heat pump is not entirely to blame, we have oil heaters in 2 bedrooms - one used just for a few hours, the other on low from about 7pm for 13 hours.

when i spoke to powershop they said the heat pump should be on constantly as it will use less power. this seems strange to me but we tried it for a few days as well as the same for the 2 oil heaters, our power use increased by about 10 units per day. the frustrating thing is that we were using the fire to heat the house in the afternoon and evening (heat pump is turned off when the fire is going good), so not only are we paying more for power, but the cost of wood too! luckily we were just trialling for a few days, so now the oil heaters are back to the way they were before, the heatpump is on all through the night (it will be from the afternoon some days too) through to mid morning when the sun shows up! i will be checking the power use from doing this in a few hours (i'm trying to do it at same time of day).

my question is how often should our heat pump be on? is it best to have it on the whole night, or to set it to a timer to come on an hour before we get up? or is it the outside temperature that is making the whole unit work harder and therefore using more power?



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xpd

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  #337272 2-Jun-2010 10:24
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Maybe Powershop think youre physically unplugging the unit from the wall hence their response..... obviously leave it plugged into the wall 24/7 - but it shouldnt be "working" 24/7 from what i know... my brother in law has one and they have it setup so it comes on during the afternnon to warm the place for the evening then turns off at some point during the night then kicks in again an hour before they get up and turns off again around 9am when theyve gone to work etc.

Check the filters...and figure out where the "probes" are for temperature, maybe theyre faulty/dirty giving false readings and making it work a lot more.




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srob
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  #337275 2-Jun-2010 10:26
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I've just put in a heat pump and had been wondering the whether to leave it on all the time. Was trying to find info and found this.

http://mitsubishielectric.co.nz/smarterheating/efficiency.aspx


I've just been using mine in the morning and evenings but still haven't had a power bill to see what its costing.


michaelmurfy
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  #337279 2-Jun-2010 10:33
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We have a Mitsubishi Electric Heatpump, it's this big new massive thing. I notice that when the compressor kicks in the lights do a little bit of a flicker. I think what the shop was trying to say having the Compressor turning on and off uses more power than just the heat pump humming in the background. Sort of like Fluorescent Lights, they require more energy to fire up than to maintain.




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Cadriel
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  #337288 2-Jun-2010 10:51
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We had one installed around 6 months ago, and I asked the installer this exact question - along with doing some research.

From what I understand, leaving it on 24/7 over the winter months is what should be done. If it's installed in a room that get's a lot of sun - you can turn it off during the day when the sun is heating the room.

When you're making use of the room - have the heat pump set to your normal comfortable temperature. Also set the fan to auto, and the fins to auto (if you can).

When you're NOT making use of the room - set the temperature to ~18, the fan to 2 bars (or equivalent on your model) and the fins to a set position. Most models allow you to set presets - so with ours, preset one is our 21 degrees auto mode, and preset two is 18 degrees manual.


The theory is - the heat pump does not need to work hard to maintain a set temperature. However, if you turn it off - then on again in the mornings, it needs to use more power to heat the room up. Apparently, it uses more power to re-heat the room than it would if you left it on all night to maintain a temperature.

Regarding your oil heaters - these SUCK POWER. If you can avoid using them - then don't use'em. Also - the rules above DO NOT apply to the oil heaters as far as I'm aware. So use them as little as possible if you have to.

Of course - it also helps to have a house that is well insulated. So make sure you've done what you can to the room with your heat pump.

Hope this helps.

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Buttonmash
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  #337292 2-Jun-2010 10:57
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What I read before purchasing our heat pump a year ago was:


If you have a well insulated house and an inverter heatpump it's better to leave it on 24/7. Maybe letting it drop to say 19 degrees while no one is in the house.

The reason is the heat pump is more efficient when it's not wringing it's guts out trying to get the house up from a cold temp. This also keeps your house more comfortable as the 'core temperature' of your house is kept at a nice temp. A nice warm couch, warm bench etc just makes the house more cosy.

If you have a poorly insulated house then it's going to waste power as the heat won't be retained, and you may as well only heat it when it's in use.

Geese
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  #337295 2-Jun-2010 11:08
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You should get rid of your oil column heaters. You should replace them with Dimplex "Drytech" oil free "eco" column heaters. These are miracle heaters, just that people don't know it!

They claim for 1kW of electricity input, they put out 30% more heat than a 1.5kW oil column heater, and up to 8 (yes EIGHT!) times faster too! Thats amazing!

langers1972
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  #337296 2-Jun-2010 11:09
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"If you have a poorly insulated house then it's going to waste power as the heat won't be retained, and you may as well only heat it when it's in use."

About 99% of all houses here then


 
 
 

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  #337319 2-Jun-2010 12:07
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It's interesting that domestic installers are telling people to run their units 24/7. My business is building controls (specifically HVAC) and the first thing we do in commercial buildings to save energy is switch off plant when the building isn't occupied.

I can see the reasoning for leaving units running when you go out for a short period of time. In that case I would probably leave the unit running if there is a large temperature differential between inside and outside. If I was going out for more than an hour switch the unit off. You're paying for heating that literally does nothing for you. In fact most people are only in their living space for about 6 hours a day. You're at work for around 9 hours and in the bedroom for around 8 hours most days so why would you heat a space for 17 hours that isn't being occupied?

Most heat pumps have time clocks on them. If you set it to switch on 30 minutes before you get up or come home from work and switch it off when you go to work or go to bed you'll be fine and have a high degree of comfort. If your space can't heat up in 30 minutes then you've either got an undersized unit or no insulation.

I think part of the reason that installers tell you to leave them on is that some people will use heatpumps like a bar heater - switch on, switch off, switch on, switch off etc. That causes short cycling which is very inefficient and hard on the compressor. If you have a heatpump you need to trust the thermostat to do it's job. Adjust the setpoint and then leave it to work.





oxnsox
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  #337344 2-Jun-2010 13:00
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Have just moved out of a place that had a poor heat pump installation. Meant it was essentially useless, so I looked into the why.....

Firstly there was no Bats or other in ceiling insulation, and secondly the unit had been installed in the kitchen, a room away from the living space and it was placed on the outside wall.(probably because thats where they could put it with the 'supplied' plumbing, so making the installed cost cheaper). It was easier to warm the living space with a separate heater....

Some older model Heatpumps aren't as efficient as newer ones, but no matter which model you have tis better (and cheaper) to run them with the thermostat set at a moderate temp setting (20-22degrees). Select a comfortable temp that the machine can maintain, not a high one which makes it run all the time. However efficient or good they are Heatpumps are high users of energy in the home. Somehow people misconstrue the efficiency in terms of a money saving. Sure it may use less energy but if you leave it running 24hrs it will use more than a standard heater running for 8hrs.

There is a mental disconnect there somewhere so folk leave them running 24/7 and find their power bills skyrocket.... would you leave a normal heater running 24/7 in your home??

Also remember that it takes less energy to heat dry air than it does damp air, so if you can reduce the moisture content inside the house (showerdomes, kitchen extractors, vented gas heaters) that will help to.

As Handleg says, there no technical reason why you need to run these things continuously.

eXDee
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  #337357 2-Jun-2010 13:30
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I found it interesting how when we had ours installed, the installer set it to a 'desired temperature' mode instead of straight heating.

So it meant that if it was warm in the day, it'd start working to cool down the room to the desired temperature. I thought this was rather stupid as many people would simply leave it like this.

We switched it over to heating only and use it only in the evenings.

beforenightfalls

185 posts

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  #337398 2-Jun-2010 15:08
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our insulation is really good so no problems there. the heat pump is a good size and heats the lounge really well. i'm unsure of its age though, i'm guessing 5+ years, as i said before it was here when we moved in. it is the larger style of fujitsu heat pumps that are quite expensive in the harvey norman catalogues so it does its job well, but maybe being a bit older makes it less efficient. dunedin temperatures don't help either!

i've trialled leaving it on a night the last few nights and will check my power shortly (powershop lets you put in readings as much as you want), if the use is down i guess leaving it on at night is fine, if its still quite high then i think we will turn it off at night, but preset it to come on in the morning just before we get up. i am at home all day with my toddler so it will be on more in house than a house where people go to work. i turn it off when we get the morning sun, last week though with the hideous rain we didn't get any sun at all for several days!

as for the oil heaters, they're a necessary evil in our house! the one that is on all night is in my daughter's room. i hate the idea of her being cold at night as she often sleeps without her blanket. its on pretty low so the room is not hot, just brought up to a comfortable temperature, maybe 18 degrees roughly. the other one is to warm up our bedroom a bit! i don't enjoy going into an ice box room before i go to sleep. once our 2nd baby arrives in a few weeks most likely we'll have the heater going all night as its very important for a new born to be kept warm!

the heat pump is set at 19 degrees. i'm not sure what speed etc its set to but have downloaded the manual today so will try and figure it out. and speaking of my heat pump, its about time to turn it back on again as we've now lost the sun!

beforenightfalls

185 posts

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  #337409 2-Jun-2010 15:32
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i've just checked my power use for the last few days since using the oil heaters considerably less (what we were doing a few weeks ago), and using the heat pump all night (through to mid morning, then the fire going and heat pump turned on late evening) and it has not decreased at all. it is at an alarming rate for us! alarming as it will be difficult to afford it. this heat pump is not going on at night and i'll check the power use in a few days. if it still is similar use i despair!

wellygary
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  #337412 2-Jun-2010 15:41
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beforenightfalls:

 the frustrating thing is that we were using the fire to heat the house in the afternoon and evening (heat pump is turned off when the fire is going good), so not only are we paying more for power, but the cost of wood too!


Please tell me that it is a wood burner and not an open fire.

beforenightfalls

185 posts

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  #337414 2-Jun-2010 15:48
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its a wood burner yes. after doing a bit more of an investigation with powershop and working out my daily readings i'm pleased to say my power use HAS GONE DOWN over the last two days. it is still quite high though. the worst few days was my stupid experiment of having the oil heaters on constantly, yes they really do use lots of power, on those few days the average power use was almost 70 units per day. for the last 2 days with the oil heaters on minimal we're back down to an average of 59 units per day. this is most likely when we had the heat pump going all night too. but if you compare it to days beforehand when we had the heatpump going when we woke in the morning rather than the whole night you're looking at 50-56 units per day for the weeks of doing that. i am sure my cats love having a nice warm lounge to sleep in at night but no one else is benefitting! i'll check my power use tomorrow around this same time and see if the daily use has gone down again. i don't find powershop's actual graphs etc helpful, best to do my own calculations it seems.

mentalinc
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  #337417 2-Jun-2010 16:01
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beforenightfalls: i've just checked my power use for the last few days since using the oil heaters considerably less (what we were doing a few weeks ago), and using the heat pump all night (through to mid morning, then the fire going and heat pump turned on late evening) and it has not decreased at all. it is at an alarming rate for us! alarming as it will be difficult to afford it. this heat pump is not going on at night and i'll check the power use in a few days. if it still is similar use i despair!


Turn the oil column off in your duaghters room one night to
A) see if she complains - if she is cold she will put the blanket back on, right?
B) see how turning one of the oil heaters off affects the bill.

or C) buy a elto power meter to see how much they say the oil column is using to run.






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