Observation about new Onkyo and Pioneer AV Receivers

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Observation about new Onkyo and Pioneer AV Receivers

Denon

20 posts

Geek

#196771 12-Jun-2016 09:39

Firstly I am not moaning about the obvious - that is paying a "New Zealand premium" for these products. This about something I discovered on AreaDVD translated. As people might know Pioneer and Onkyo are essentially the same company. On AreaDVD they did reviews of the Onkyo TX-NR656 and the Pioneer VSX- 1131 as well as the Denon AVR X2300W. Now if you look at the reviews you will see they are all priced between 600-700 EUR (950NZD -1120NZD) With 50EUR difference between the Onkyo and the Pioneer. The images and the specifications of the Onkyo and Pioneer are very interesting. They are basically the SAME receiver. Same layout, same components, same transformers. Different front panel but same back panel. So I was interested to see if there was a difference reflected in the reviews. Not much, some software differences - Video upscaling, "pioneer sound" actually the Onkyo may come out better in terms of Home Theatre punch.

So how will the New Zealand importers deal with these two models?

I suspect the company which has the monopoly on Pioneer Av Receivers will go with the highest "New Zealand premium" they can get away with. (I don't think the company who supplies them are particularly competitive) and the company which imports the Onkyo's will be competitive (traditionally they offer good prices on their Onkyos as well as really good end of line discounts)

And the Denon? Well that is supposed to better than the other two.

Some companies will offer good promotional discounts and end of line discounts. Some companies never do! (pioneer and denon suppliers)

So if you are tempted to buy the Pioneer for $1999 ( current price on the VSX 1130) DON'T! The Onkyo is the same machine plus if you wait a bit you might get it for under $800 (Onkyo TX -NR646 discounted at $799)

If you buy the VSX 1131 you will feel badly ripped off in a year from now!!

Image of Onkyo

Image of Pioneer

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#1570437 12-Jun-2016 13:02

I'd take a Denon over any Japanese brand - but I might be biased.

Interesting to know they are basically the same. I always thought Onkio was one of the more trust worthy Japanese brands.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1570461 12-Jun-2016 14:00

You'd take a Denon over a Japanese brand?

From WikiPedia

Denon Wiki

The Denon brand was first established in 1947 when Nippon Columbia merged with Japan Denki Onkyo.[3] D&M Holdings Inc. was created in May 2002 when Denon Ltd and Marantz Japan Inc. merged.[4]

Sure Bain Capital are financing a LOT of D&M's debt today, but to most peoples eyes they very much have Japanese roots.

And to the OP...

With Onkyo's somewhat 'interesting' reliability issues over the last few years, do you think this will spread to the new Pioneer range? Or are the Onkyo's actually Pioneer's with a different front panel and logo?

Denon

20 posts

Geek

#1570564 12-Jun-2016 16:48

Onkyo had issues with the HDMI boards. Some forums suggest that this is no longer the case. Experience tells me that some issue always comes along. Often software bugs.

Yamaha - seem to be quite reliable

Onkyo

Pioneer

Marantz

Denon

Sony

These are all Japanese in origin (recent times)

Will poor Onkyo reliability creep across to Pioneer? Actually the Pioneer AV receivers have had software issues themselves according to some forums.

Plenty of Marantz' have been freezing up too. Maybe they have come too complex.

Presently the trend is towards streaming films in HD. Currently there is DD+ 5.1 decoding which is actually a step backward. Most people's present experience is probably 2.1 Stereo. So a lot of AV Receivers are too highly spec-ed unless you use HD audio formats on Blu-ray disks. I am holding out for streaming 4K+ video (the Japanese have just figured out how to do 8K video better) with HD 7.2 audio.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1570575 12-Jun-2016 17:24

Dolby Digital+ ATMOS while streaming 4K.

I'm happy enough when that rolls through (and it's not far away at all by the looks of things).

UA22 errors on Pioneer's.

HDMI boards + T.I. chips going south on Onkyo's.

The combination could be a hell of a mess, or they could have gone through a full re-design and have gone down a better direction. The question is, do you feel lucky?

Denon

20 posts

Geek

#1570584 12-Jun-2016 17:49

I did notice that the Tx-nr656 board layout was quite different to the Tx -nr646.

Actually i don't think we will see the Pioneer VSX1131 here at all. I think who-ever imports the Pioneer stuff will avoid anything that is too similar to the Onkyo. I wonder if Onkyo will experiment with class D amps?

Actually these things are so cheap in the US that people replace them after a couple of years anyone. Well that is the impression on AVforums. I guess if you can buy a mid-road av receiver for around $500 then who cares if it blows after a couple of years.

"I never buy an Onkyo again" etc is heard often until someone convinces that they are "really good" now!

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1570591 12-Jun-2016 18:18

Denon:

I did notice that the Tx-nr656 board layout was quite different to the Tx -nr646.

Actually i don't think we will see the Pioneer VSX1131 here at all. I think who-ever imports the Pioneer stuff will avoid anything that is too similar to the Onkyo. I wonder if Onkyo will experiment with class D amps?

Actually these things are so cheap in the US that people replace them after a couple of years anyone. Well that is the impression on AVforums. I guess if you can buy a mid-road av receiver for around $500 then who cares if it blows after a couple of years.

"I never buy an Onkyo again" etc is heard often until someone convinces that they are "really good" now!

I don't think it's a 'maybe'... I'm almost certain that we'll see Class D top end Onkyo's. It'll be a good way to remove the whole 'cook fried eggs on my Onkyo' issue.

All up, this is really just a confirmation that there's now really only 4 types of mainstream AVR's you can buy.

Yamaha

Denon/Marantz

Onkyo/Pioneer

Sony

And I think I'm being a little generous including Sony in the list... but others would argue otherwise.

pipe60

127 posts

Master Geek

#1570675 12-Jun-2016 20:17

Any thoughts on how the Intrega HT amps compare with the mainstream brands above. Good pricing thru the electrical wholesalers at the moment.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1570715 12-Jun-2016 21:01

Probably EOL as the new models are coming through soon, so maybe a deal or two to be grabbed if the spec fits your needs??

Fewer will be commented about on here / around the place, as the electricians who are buying them aren't necessarily 'audio guys' who surf forums. Nor will they comment in the negative, as they're commercially inclined not to.

Or...

If only electrical wholesalers are selling it, then audio stores who aren't selling it... know something they don't?

Denon

20 posts

Geek

#1570739 12-Jun-2016 22:02

The ones I have seen might be re-furbished. $799 for a 2015 model? Integra is supposed to be high end Onkyo for custom installers. Issues "no sound at boot up" so software bugs.

Just google "Integra av receiver problems"