Consumer complaints & TOS

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DKRE

1 post

Wannabe Geek

#15598 30-Aug-2007 17:56

Hi guys,..

I'm just wondering if anyone out there has complained successfully to consumer affairs(?) with regards to the poor service provided by woosh or challenged their TOS directly with the company?

Currently I'm going back and forth thru their support channels to exhast all their in-house support before I make a formal complaint and ask for a full refund of all charges incured since I signed up with them or take the matter further.

My issues has been awknowledged to be normal (by an in-house tech) for any and all users: excessive latency (over 2000ms to a complete timeout once every 1 or 2 mintues), excessive network shaping and throttling, capped upload of around 5Kbps, unexplained disconnections.

The TOS or their plans never define 'data', meaning that the data usage of any user can and should be challenged. Furthermore a breakdown of usage is not available at all except what the user can see online. The obvious issue I'm having here is that at my end the data (up and down) is a whole lot less than what I'm being told I'm using.

Broadband isn't defined either. Essentially the 'common' understanding of what the service should be then would be applied which generally means faster than dial-up, which as we all know isn't the case with our upstream.

I;ve been in Australia for the last 10 years and a company providing such useless service would be eaten alive by the telecommunications ombudsmen - if only we had one ; ) With the latency issue alot of services fail (assuming the connection is dropped), the shaping and upstream are below any kind of standard for broadband and my gosh - the outages!?

On top of all of these issues their modem (connected via usb) caused my machine to freeze int every hour or so - for 8 MONTHS! Dell completed over 10 services on this thing and ended up replacing it before the problem was identified. Seriously a usb device crashing a system ... my lord!

I hope others also make complaints, this truly is so below par.
Cheers.

JonnieC

14 posts

Geek

#84968 2-Sep-2007 22:41

I have also made complaints in regards to the same issues directly to woosh.

In response I was told basicly to fock off. They would gladly disconect my service for me for a fee "outlined in my contract".
Now this is all great and fine apart from

A) I never signed a contract

When I informed woosh of this I was told I had agreed to a verbal contract upon signing up to woosh.

Which brings me to my second point, we shall call it point B) for effect.

B) I never agreed verbally to any contract.

I know this because when I called woosh to ask about pricing etc, I was basicly sold via the telephone because it was my understanding there was no contracts and or joining fees.

I finally told woosh I had not agreed to any 12 month contract and was not informed verbally or contractually I had signed up for 12 months, I was informed that It is outlined in the terms and conditions on the woosh website and I should have read these before joining...

HOW THE %$#*&^&#& CAN I HAVE READ THE TERMS ON SAID WEBSITE WITH NO INTERNET CONECTION

Since I am young and ignorant and don't know the laws in regards to these matters I assume I'm just an idiot and there is nothing I can do.

Anyway back to the original post. I have all the above problems. Again being young and inocent I assumed there was nothing I could do in regards to my sh:tty choice of service provider.

Would be very interested to hear better.

alasta

6706 posts

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#84988 3-Sep-2007 06:42

JonnieC: I have also made complaints in regards to the same issues directly to woosh.

In response I was told basicly to fock off. They would gladly disconect my service for me for a fee "outlined in my contract".

Now this is all great and fine apart from
A) I never signed a contract

<snip>

Since I am young and ignorant and don't know the laws in regards to these matters I assume I'm just an idiot and there is nothing I can do.

As I understand it, a verbal contract is legally binding but the calltaker at the time would have to have specifically asked you to verbally confirm your acceptance of the terms and conditions and given you the opportunity to decline or take the time to read them. If this didn't happen then Woosh would have no evidence to convince a court that a contract was formed, so I would say that you're off the hook here.

Screwing people like this by trying to convince them that they are bound to a contract which doesn't actually exist is a nasty business practise, and if I were in your shoes then I'd be fighting back.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79289 posts

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Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#84989 3-Sep-2007 07:37

Better still, close the contract and find another ISP. If enough people leave them then perhaps they realise something is wrong - perhaps when their pockets run empty.

I've seen lots of complaints around Geekzone, but Woosh seems to be always doing the rounds.

maverick

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WorldxChange

#84996 3-Sep-2007 08:04

First things is that they have to give you proof of the contract, it is their responsibilty to have that verbal contract , if it is a voice verification then they must have a copy and you must be informed when you signed up, it is a legal requirement we have to follow the same procedures. If they can't produce the Voice Verification then there is no contract plain and simple

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

JonnieC

14 posts

Geek

#85041 3-Sep-2007 10:51

So what does one do.
Cancel the contract, refuse to pay. Get taken to baycord.
Cancel the contract. Pay them anyway, write it down as bad experiance.
Cancel the contract. Refuse to pay, spend thousands on lawyers trying to proove a point.

Any other alternatives?

maverick

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WorldxChange

#85073 3-Sep-2007 12:48

1. First ask them for a copy of the Voice Verification as this is the contract...remeber no voice verfiication no contract...make sure you tell them this

2. If they don't supply you can tell them that there is no binding contract
3. If no , tell them you are laying a complaint with the Commerce Commision who are responsible for dealing with Teleco complaints.
4. Document everything...EMails , Phone Calls etc, Get Names and dates

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

Rickles

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#85074 3-Sep-2007 12:53

JonnieC

Call Consumer, they will possibly help you. Also, pop along to your neighbourhood Citizens Advice Bureau and ask for their help .... both avenues will give you good FREE advice.

R.

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

kiwispire

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#85927 9-Sep-2007 02:29

You should also be able to request from them copies of all records they have of your conversations with them which should contain any references to any so called "contract" between you and them.

Just request it from whoever you are speaking to at woosh next and be sure to mention how long you had to spend on hold to get through to them as well. The last time I had to deal with them I was on hold at least 30 minutes and they sure don't have big known issues that should mean a wait time like that at the time I called, unlike another ISP I could mention recently.

nhe911

27 posts

Geek

#86731 15-Sep-2007 01:26

I guess I was the lucky one. I was basically told to fock off in my initial phone enquiry trying to sign up with them. Their rep refused to give name or any ID. I was even "threatened" that they would disconnect my call, which they did, if I continued to ask slightly more inquisitive questions. I just had to laugh and stay far away from them.

KiwiOverseas66

173 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#86733 15-Sep-2007 05:06

maverick:
First things is that they have to give you proof of the contract, it is their responsibilty to have that verbal contract , if it is a voice verification then they must have a copy and you must be informed when you signed up, it is a legal requirement we have to follow the same procedures. If they can't produce the Voice Verification then there is no contract plain and simple

ok so I'm not a lawyer, but I've spent many, many years putting together contracts, going through hundreds of pages (vetted by lawyers) for long term IT/ Telco projects. Maverick is spot on the money. If it can't be verified - its not a contract. I think this comes down to the distinction between a contract and "contractual obligation". A contract is a verifiable agreement - usually a document (could be a recording) - agreed to by both parties. The important thing is that the contract has to be verifiable, and therefore has to exist (ie. - it physically exists).

You can agree to something over the phone or via an email - but my understanding is that in the absence of a contract, this constitutes an undertaking (which may then be viewed as a contractual obligation). Doesn't mean a contract exists. One of the important provisions of a contract is that both parties do have to agree to it prior to the contract coming into force. If you get tricked into it - the contract is void. If you are pressured into signing it (the legal term for this is "duress") - its null and void. oh - with a contractual obligation - I think this comes down to the Consumers Guarantees act and Fair Trade act. If as a company/ trader - you agree to provide a service at a certain price verbally - and that service and price are accepted verbally (or in writing) - then it must be supplied at that price - even if its a mistake as a obligation exists. Don't know if this applies to individuals selling on say an auction web site.

Also - just because someone puts a provision in their terms and conditions - doesn't make it legal. Companies like to put all sorts of things in Ts and Cs - which will stay there until someone challenges it. One of the things about Tc and Cs is that they have to be reasonable (i.e - failure to pay will be met with deadly force, etc), they have to be fully disclosed, and reasonable steps have to be taken to make you aware of them (of course - what constitutes "reasonable" is a big grey area and one of the reasons why there are so many lawyers). In short - if the provider of an internet service tries to lock you in to a term on the basis of Ts and Cs only published on a website, that requires you to have an internet connection in the first place - that's just silly. CoCom, Small Claims, etc would have a field day. Also as you point out - the advertising campaign was based on no contracts - so at the very least they would be guilty of misleading advertising. Drop an email to fair go. That will scare the sh*# out of them.

kiwispire

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#86777 15-Sep-2007 14:18

Drop an email to fair go. That will scare the sh*# out of them.

If someone does or gets John Campbell onto it please let us know or throw it on youtube.

I think it would be rather interesting.

JAMMAN2110

871 posts

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#87678 22-Sep-2007 18:22

After a mass of issues and moving out of the coverage area I'm in the process of canceling my connection (see thread here).
I never signed or agreed to any form of contract, in fact I was assured there wasn't one.
I'm appalled at Woosh and how they handle such things.