Chorus OHUG quote that makes no sense...

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chrisallen

17 posts

Geek

#243294 4-Dec-2018 22:20

I currently have chorus fibre installed at the property, that is delivered overhead from a power pole on the street that resides next to one of our gates, to the corner of the house, then down the side of the house to the ETP which is located above our front door to the right. This leads to the existing ONT which is installed in one of our bedrooms. I have no idea why it was installed here instead of in the living room behind the TV (It was installed before we purchased the house).

As I am in the process of centralising the networking and Freeview/Sky TV cabling, I have installed a Dynamix home network distribution box in the garage that will house the ONT, Router, and network switch, along with TV antenna splitters etc.

In doing so, I have run new internal ducting from this cabinet up and over to the corner of the garage where a new Chorus ETP will be installed on the outside of the garage.

Here is where the fun begins...

I originally called Chorus soon after we bought the house to start an OHUG order, which I ended up cancelling due to the estimated costs of $2000+ from the technician who came out to do the scope. fast forward to September this year, I decided to go down the road of getting an OHUG done, this time with myself digging the trench, and installing chorus 20mm green underground lead in pipe (conduit) from the corner of the garage, all the way to the other side of the property (going under two driveways in the process) and across the berm to the pole where the existing fibre is delivered overhead. I even obtained council approval to dig outside my boundary to the required depth based on chorus's requirements.

After the lead-in pipe was installed by myself, I was able to obtain some chorus white 20mm conduit to connect to the underground green pipe and come up the side of the property to the required height for the new ETP. (which I had an old damaged one from a local chorus tech I spoke to at the side of the road)

I then installed some 18mm plumbing PVC pipe on a downward angle from the internal junction box inside the garage, through the concrete brick, to the ETP on the outside of the garage wall.

At this point i'd say I have completed 90% of the manual work that Chorus would have had to do, should I have had them do the work themselves right?

Well after calling Spark and placing and OHUG order I had a technician come out two days later to do the work, Great I thought! that is fast service! turns out the job was created as a "modify existing connection" not an "OHUG", so he took some photos and went back to arrange approval for an OHUG. A few days later I was informed this needed to be sent tot he build/design team as a new "OHUG" order.

A week went by, at which time a Chorus external network technician came out to do a scope/plan for the job. He took some photos of the internal ducting, the ETP I had installed, and the lead-in pipe that ran from the house to the roadside pole. I even AirDrop'ed him some of my own photos from my phone that I took of the trench and lead in pipe installation so show the work I had done, and that it was all to chorus requirements.

I called Chorus and Spark on and off over the few weeks that followed, ensuring that they had notes on the job from me that detailed the work I had already completed as the customer, each time, they informed me that the job was in the approval phase with Chorus and was waiting for a quote to be generated for me (the customer and home owner) to approve.

Then today I receive an email today outlining the cost of the OHUG work, which comes to a total cost to customer including GST = $1,676.96!!! As you can imagine I am bewildered at the figure quoted and tried contacting Spark and Chorus to get a break down of the labour cost and material cost as I couldn't understand why they were so high. After a few hours, I managed to get someone to email the "Connection Support" team in Christchurch who Spark said should be able to provide more info on the quote, and allow me to dispute the costs etc.

Here is a video of the install I did, along with a few photos below to show context to the above saga. I would love to hear from anyone who has been in a similar situation, or who might know of the best path forward with Chorus/Spark?

Video:

https://youtu.be/azOwRBqTYmA

Photos of install, including ETP and internal junction (click image for full size image)

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2834 posts

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Subscriber

#2139460 4-Dec-2018 22:35

The cost of fibre per metre is expensive me thinks and add the time for them to blow it through, splice it etc etc.

Its a new 'run' essentially.

If you didnt have fibre already then theoretically it would have been 'free'.

snnet

1410 posts

Uber Geek

#2139463 4-Dec-2018 22:45

This is a common thing that comes up -- they want to blow a new fibre run all the way from the new ETP to the FAT somewhere on the (or a) street apparently. Is there a chance the overhead run would reach the new ETP? Have had this many times, unfortunately unless there is something amiss and you can get ahold of someone with some brains at chorus that don't just blindly follow process without thinking for themselves you're stuck with having to foot the potential bill....

chrisallen

17 posts

Geek

#2139465 4-Dec-2018 22:55

snnet:

This is a common thing that comes up -- they want to blow a new fibre run all the way from the new ETP to the FAT somewhere on the (or a) street apparently. Is there a chance the overhead run would reach the new ETP? Have had this many times, unfortunately unless there is something amiss and you can get ahold of someone with some brains at chorus that don't just blindly follow process without thinking for themselves you're stuck with having to foot the potential bill....

So the FAT is on the same side of the street, about 4 houses down so it's no too far away. By my calculation, the existing overhead connection _might_ just reach the new ETP and then would simply need to be connected to a new hybrid CAT5E cable to go to the new ONT location. They can reuse the existing ONT, and possibly the existing internal hybrid cable (it goes through the roof a fair way to the existing ONT location) so in a perfect world, it would be just a labour cost, and perhaps a few materials.

I was sure there would be some cost, but $331.65+GST (Materials) + $1,126.58+GST (Labour) seems crazy excessive.

To make maters worse, both techs that came out on seperate occasions estimated the work to take 1-2 hours max. so unless they cost $500 an hour, then I am at a loss to how Chorus arrive at that figure. I know they charge $25 per 1/4 hour of labour for copper OHUG's...

This all feels like a kick in the gut, considering I have done my best to do as much work as I can myself. To the point of doing the white chorus ducting to the ETP and drilling the hole thought the concrete brick work.

@snnet do you happen to know anyone at Chorus that could help? perhaps @Chorusnz ?

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2139466 4-Dec-2018 23:02

Sounds to me like there has been a bit of a to and throw with this one.

If you flick me the order details, I'll give it a look over and see if there isn't more detail that could help.

Given you have spoken to connection support, I'd be surprised if something has gone wrong but then.. OHUG vs Modification is an interesting catch.

I suspect some confusion with which box to check has occurred in the initial order creation.

@chorusnz would be able to comment a bit more on the work.

The biggest thing i notice is looks like right at the pole there may be a bit of awkward work required, Often the green pipe is shoved up then trimmed down to length.

May make things rather difficult to blow. Copper they would have likely just join it at the hole.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

chrisallen

17 posts

Geek

#2139467 4-Dec-2018 23:07

hio77:

If you flick me the order details, I'll give it a look over and see if there isn't more detail that could help.

I have PM'ed you :) (Thanks in advanced!)

hio77:

The biggest thing i notice is looks like right at the pole there may be a bit of awkward work required, Often the green pipe is shoved up then trimmed down to length.

May make things rather difficult to blow. Copper they would have likely just join it at the hole.

As for the green ducting, I can dig back around the driveway a bit and it can be brought back up to above ground to allow blowing the fibre through it. I just buried it with a plastic bag stuffed in the end (and taped over) to avoid anything getting into it.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2139468 4-Dec-2018 23:09

Unfortunatly, Chorus are still going to install their own microduct into your conduit, where they would have otherwise just direct buried the microduct. So only a minimal saving on labour to install the microduct. Everything else will still be as per a new install, unless they reuse the ONT. So I can understand why the cost is only $300 or so less.

I realise that the above is probably not what you want to hear. But you will end up with a far higher quality install, compared to what you would have gotten if you just told Chorus to do the entire job themselves.

About the only thing that would have made a difference to the cost, would have been installing the microduct yourself. I have seen new builds where the "first fix" involves installing microduct both from the street connection to the ETP. And between the ETP and ONT location.

Previous owners probably used the bedroom with the ONT as a home office.

SATTV

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#2139469 4-Dec-2018 23:09

There is no doubt that Chorus are gouging on work like this, I am sure there will be some ex Chorus tech who are willing to do the job for a fraction of that cost, I know it is Chorus infrastructure but I know of someone in Auckland doing private fibre repairs as he is a lot cheaper than Chorus. Apparently he is a lot faster too.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

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snnet

1410 posts

Uber Geek

#2139471 4-Dec-2018 23:11

chrisallen:

snnet:

This is a common thing that comes up -- they want to blow a new fibre run all the way from the new ETP to the FAT somewhere on the (or a) street apparently. Is there a chance the overhead run would reach the new ETP? Have had this many times, unfortunately unless there is something amiss and you can get ahold of someone with some brains at chorus that don't just blindly follow process without thinking for themselves you're stuck with having to foot the potential bill....

So the FAT is on the same side of the street, about 4 houses down so it's no too far away. By my calculation, the existing overhead connection _might_ just reach the new ETP and then would simply need to be connected to a new hybrid CAT5E cable to go to the new ONT location. They can reuse the existing ONT, and possibly the existing internal hybrid cable (it goes through the roof a fair way to the existing ONT location) so in a perfect world, it would be just a labour cost, and perhaps a few materials.

I was sure there would be some cost, but $331.65+GST (Materials) + $1,126.58+GST (Labour) seems crazy excessive.

To make maters worse, both techs that came out on seperate occasions estimated the work to take 1-2 hours max. so unless they cost $500 an hour, then I am at a loss to how Chorus arrive at that figure. I know they charge $25 per 1/4 hour of labour for copper OHUG's...

This all feels like a kick in the gut, considering I have done my best to do as much work as I can myself. To the point of doing the white chorus ducting to the ETP and drilling the hole thought the concrete brick work.

@snnet do you happen to know anyone at Chorus that could help? perhaps @Chorusnz ?

Really sorry but no I don't have a contact, I'm often in the same boat as you are when trying to help customers sort things out. A few years back I had a job where I'd run everything (copper) up a 2km driveway, could pull both ends of cables no problem, chorus took months to scope even though all they actually had to do was connect to the grey pillar at the street where the cables were run to (I'd done all other work right thru). They put a pole on a truck and sent it down, the owner finally managed to get hold of someone at Chorus who had been explained the details in full (again) to which they apparently said "What? why do we need to put a pole in? Are you sure this is all done and ready?" connection done that day no ridiculous unnecessary pole across driveway

Unfortunately like most things in this world it comes down to who you get on the other end. Lucky there are people with some insight like hio to try and help from their end!

chrisallen

17 posts

Geek

#2139472 4-Dec-2018 23:12

SATTV:

There is no doubt that Chorus are gouging on work like this, I am sure there will be some ex Chorus tech who are willing to do the job for a fraction of that cost, I know it is Chorus infrastructure but I know of someone in Auckland doing private fibre repairs as he is a lot cheaper than Chorus. Apparently he is a lot faster too.

John

I'm based on Taupo, so finding someone who could do the work at a cheaper rate is going to be hard pushed. Personally I would rather talk directly to the Chorus team that generated the original quote and explain the work that I have already done, and work out a more reasonable cost of install.

snnet:

Unfortunately like most things in this world it comes down to who you get on the other end. Lucky there are people with some insight like hio to try and help from their end!

Fingers Crossed!!

chrisallen

17 posts

Geek

#2139475 4-Dec-2018 23:30

Aredwood:

Unfortunatly, Chorus are still going to install their own microduct into your conduit, where they would have otherwise just direct buried the microduct. So only a minimal saving on labour to install the microduct. Everything else will still be as per a new install, unless they reuse the ONT. So I can understand why the cost is only $300 or so less.

I realise that the above is probably not what you want to hear. But you will end up with a far higher quality install, compared to what you would have gotten if you just told Chorus to do the entire job themselves.

About the only thing that would have made a difference to the cost, would have been installing the microduct yourself. I have seen new builds where the "first fix" involves installing microduct both from the street connection to the ETP. And between the ETP and ONT location.

Previous owners probably used the bedroom with the ONT as a home office.

@Aredwood I would happily install the microduct myself from the street to the ETP, and then hybrid or microduct from the ETP to the new ONT location. I just need to know where I can purchase it from. Do you have any information on where I might be able to source chorus approved microduct?

Aredwood

3885 posts

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#2139485 5-Dec-2018 01:09

I don't think that there would be a worthwhile cost saving for you to install microduct yourself at this stage of the process. As you have already installed conduit.

The savings from you installing the microduct, would have been from not having to purchase and install the green conduit. But since you have already purchased and installed the conduit. The only remaining time saving would be from the tech not having to poke microduct through your conduit. Which would only be a small part of the whole job. So unlikely to give you a worthwhile cost saving now. Especially as wherever you buy the microduct, is going to charge you a margin on top of the price that Chorus would buy it for.

The earlier microduct versions had to be installed in conduit. Chorus now have a tougher version that can be direct buried.

I'm going to have similar problems, as I want 3 phase power connected to my house. Which means that I have to go through Vector (lines company in Auckland) to get it. And even worse, the cables on my side of the street are only single phase. So I will need a new cable to the other side of the street.

snnet

1410 posts

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#2139495 5-Dec-2018 05:34

Aredwood: I don't think that there would be a worthwhile cost saving for you to install microduct yourself at this stage of the process. As you have already installed conduit.

The savings from you installing the microduct, would have been from not having to purchase and install the green conduit. But since you have already purchased and installed the conduit. The only remaining time saving would be from the tech not having to poke microduct through your conduit. Which would only be a small part of the whole job. So unlikely to give you a worthwhile cost saving now. Especially as wherever you buy the microduct, is going to charge you a margin on top of the price that Chorus would buy it for.

The earlier microduct versions had to be installed in conduit. Chorus now have a tougher version that can be direct buried.

I'm going to have similar problems, as I want 3 phase power connected to my house. Which means that I have to go through Vector (lines company in Auckland) to get it. And even worse, the cables on my side of the street are only single phase. So I will need a new cable to the other side of the street.

And maybe a transformer upgrade, pit depending on where you are!

Zeon

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#2139560 5-Dec-2018 08:43

So as we all kind of know, most of the Chorus subcontractors are open to manipulation. If its someone with their own subcontracting firm you can probably buy the materials directly from them under the table. I'm not sure for the last layer of subcontracting companies and whether they have to pay for materials so this would be "kosher". When I ordered a change of ETP location the guy said he "wasn't allowed" to run cable in walls. He left me with 50m of hybrid cat5e/fibre and I did myself and he just came to splice.

Speedtest 2019-10-14

chevrolux

4962 posts

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#2139571 5-Dec-2018 08:51

Your best option is to scope out the local tech and get them to do a cashy. With you doing all that work it is now just a couple of hours to run the new cable and splice.

Fibre is cheap. Chorus labor is ridiculously expensive, but you have no option.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2139574 5-Dec-2018 08:58

Hi @chrisallen,

Can you please flick me a PM with your Spark and/or Chorus order number, and I will look into this for you.

Many thanks,

Simon @ Chorus

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

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