Picking my next ISP

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ohmer

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#280946 20-Jan-2021 22:38

Hi there,

Fairly new to NZ and after 1 year with spark ~1Gbps fibre, I'm considering a change. I'm based in Wellington if that matters.

I am looking for up to date information and recommendation for my next pick. What I'd love to have is static IPv4, IPv6 prefix delegation and DHCP (instead of PPPoE) and ability to bring my own router.

Spark does not have IPv6 (yeah I know... most people consider this a gadget... I don't) and use PPPoE (the latter is not major but if have the option...). I haven't seen a thing about future IPv6 deployment and looking at https://ipv6.org.nz/ I am a bit pessimistic).

I spent quite a bit of time reading messages posted here. It looks like the best provider would be Orcon. Did I get it right? What you recommend in my case?

Cheers,

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#2639268 20-Jan-2021 22:56

Switched from Bigpipe to 2degrees and have been super happy with speeds/latency, the two things that pushed me to change over were IPv6 support and peering policies

My latency to CloudFlare-hosted websites has dropped significantly now that Bigpipe/Spark is not routing my traffic needlessly to Sydney when there is a CloudFlare CDN in Auckland

Can't comment on Orcon specifically, but the go-to ISP names that usually get thrown around on here are 2degrees and Voyager

I believe Voyager doesn't charge an on-going fee for static IPv4 addresses unlike 2degrees if that matters to you

michaelmurfy

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#2639298 21-Jan-2021 00:41

To be perfectly honest, PPPoE isn't bad and 2degrees support a full 1500byte MTU on it. But, based on your needs it really sounds like Voyager is a great fit for you.

Voyager have a one-off cost ($14.95 from memory) for a Static IP which includes a static /56 IPv6 delegation (if you ask them for it). Their support is great, they peer openly and one of their top network engineers is even on Geekzone (Hi @VygrNetworkMonkey).

You are also free to use your own equipment. Yes, it is PPPoE with VLAN 10 (but there may be a way to get DHCP - have never asked them. I know they can do untagged connections on request) but that is the standard here in NZ on the major providers.

I've also got a blog post on picking an ISP: https://murfy.nz/2018/02/06/picking-the-right-isp/

Personally (and I mean personally) I wouldn't go with Orcon due to their support - it has been torture every time I've had to contact them and I don't think their IPv6 is as mature. A static is $10/mo also on Orcon and I'm not sure if they do Static IPv6 delegations.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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ohmer

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#2639299 21-Jan-2021 01:07

Thanks for feedback. Much appreciated.

On the PPPoE point, I was geeking around with my Spark fiber and I just had a pleasant discovery. For a home gateway, my OS of choice is FreeBSD. There is at least two options to establish a PPPoE session with this OS. One with the old PPP daemon and the other with MPD (http://mpd.sourceforge.net/). It happens that the old PPP daemon does packet transformation in user context while MPD keeps it in kernel thanks netgraph goodness. My test gateway is not exactly lower power for the job (core i5 gen3) but this has quite a CPU impact. I reach 200Mbps a simple speedtest and peeks at 25% load. Which made me think of a multi threading issue since its a 2x2 CPU package. Applying the multiqueue and deferred dispatch workaround as described here https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=203856#c11, I reach 600Mbps with 50% CPU load with the same basic test. I'd rather keep this processing power for something else like HTTP inspection. With MPD, this is much more efficient, there is no need for context switch and data copy and I get 850Mbps with marginal CPU load.

michaelmurfy

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#2639301 21-Jan-2021 01:31

The problem with PPPoE (as you know) it is single-threaded on FreeBSD. For your home gateway if you want something powerful that can route Gigabit no worries take a look at the Ubiquiti Edgerouter range. They're Vyatta / Debian based routers with a rather nice web interface and also use far less power than a computer.

HTTP(S) inspection is rather pointless these days. For starters, most sites are SSL encrypted and also having SSL inspection enabled breaks many, many things if not done 100% correctly. You'll spend forever whitelisting things like banking apps etc.

You're seriously better to use a purpose built router designed for routing packets. I was once like you (running Debian w/ iptables as my router) along with other router distributions but have given up on this years ago in favor for less problems and performance gains.

K8Toledo

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#2639305 21-Jan-2021 04:32

I like Spark broadband. I find the support team are generally willing to take ownership of provider screw ups, which has happened more than once.

But to be fair, what I dislike is the Business Model that turns Account Managers into pushy door to door salesman instead of looking out for the client's interests.

nztim

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#2639418 21-Jan-2021 09:35

HTTPS inspection requires a properly configured UTM from the likes of SonicWALL or FortiGate and a domain controller or something similar to distribute the intermediate certificate to clients

Even with the above it doesn't work with Firefox because Firefox uses its own certificate store not the windows store

you also have obligations to exclude certain sites like Internet Banking, managemyheath etc as these could be privacy breeches

I would personally recommend an AV product like ESET to manage this inspection rather that a firewall unless you know know what your doing

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

VygrNetworkMonkey

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#2639423 21-Jan-2021 09:49

michaelmurfy:

To be perfectly honest, PPPoE isn't bad and 2degrees support a full 1500byte MTU on it. But, based on your needs it really sounds like Voyager is a great fit for you.

Voyager have a one-off cost ($14.95 from memory) for a Static IP which includes a static /56 IPv6 delegation (if you ask them for it). Their support is great, they peer openly and one of their top network engineers is even on Geekzone (Hi @VygrNetworkMonkey).

You are also free to use your own equipment. Yes, it is PPPoE with VLAN 10 (but there may be a way to get DHCP - have never asked them. I know they can do untagged connections on request) but that is the standard here in NZ on the major providers.

I've also got a blog post on picking an ISP: https://murfy.nz/2018/02/06/picking-the-right-isp/

Personally (and I mean personally) I wouldn't go with Orcon due to their support - it has been torture every time I've had to contact them and I don't think their IPv6 is as mature. A static is $10/mo also on Orcon and I'm not sure if they do Static IPv6 delegations.

Thanks for the ping @michaelmurfy!

To clarify:
Voyager supports PPPoE with VLAN 10 by default - you can request the VLAN tag to be removed if you desire.
We do not support IPoE/DHCP currently - we are testing it, but no plans at this stage to release it into the wild. Yet.

IPv6 assignments are free, (/64 link, /56 delegated/static) regardless of your IPv4 addressing - but if you do want a static IP, its as @michaelmurfy says - one off cost of $14.95

If you have any further queries, hit me up!

Voyager Internet - Network Monkey

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nztim

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#2639425 21-Jan-2021 09:54

VygrNetworkMonkey:

Thanks for the ping @michaelmurfy!

To clarify:
Voyager supports PPPoE with VLAN 10 by default - you can request the VLAN tag to be removed if you desire.
We do not support IPoE/DHCP currently - we are testing it, but no plans at this stage to release it into the wild. Yet.

IPv6 assignments are free, (/64 link, /56 delegated/static) regardless of your IPv4 addressing - but if you do want a static IP, its as @michaelmurfy says - one off cost of $14.95

If you have any further queries, hit me up!

I am looking to churn a friend over to you guys, question, will it connect with a generic PPPoE Username & Password? the connection is 200km drive from me to go change it

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

VygrNetworkMonkey

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#2639427 21-Jan-2021 09:59

nztim:

I am looking to churn a friend over to you guys, question, will it connect with a generic PPPoE Username & Password? the connection is 200km drive from me to go change it

Not as yet unfortunately - again, in testing, but no set date for release.

Voyager Internet - Network Monkey

Kiwifruta

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#2639430 21-Jan-2021 10:02

nztim:
VygrNetworkMonkey:

Thanks for the ping @michaelmurfy!

To clarify:
Voyager supports PPPoE with VLAN 10 by default - you can request the VLAN tag to be removed if you desire.
We do not support IPoE/DHCP currently - we are testing it, but no plans at this stage to release it into the wild. Yet.

IPv6 assignments are free, (/64 link, /56 delegated/static) regardless of your IPv4 addressing - but if you do want a static IP, its as @michaelmurfy says - one off cost of $14.95

If you have any further queries, hit me up!

I am looking to churn a friend over to you guys, question, will it connect with a generic PPPoE Username & Password? the connection is 200km drive from me to go change it

Can your friend install Team Viewer?

deadlyllama

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#2639431 21-Jan-2021 10:02

I'm happy with Stuff fibre - Vocus, DHCP/DHCPv6, one off static IPv4 cost, IPv6 prefix delegation. No static v6 though :(

I used to be on voyager but their Gigabit is quite pricey and with children in the house I like stuff's content filter (you can turn it on/off and it's no extra charge).

nztim

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#2639434 21-Jan-2021 10:11

Kiwifruta:
nztim:

I am looking to churn a friend over to you guys, question, will it connect with a generic PPPoE Username & Password? the connection is 200km drive from me to go change it

Can your friend install Team Viewer?

I have and IPSEC tunnel so them, but, if I fat finger the password, and it churns and doesn't connect I have a 200km drive

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

xpd

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#2639437 21-Jan-2021 10:13

Kiwifruta:
nztim:

I am looking to churn a friend over to you guys, question, will it connect with a generic PPPoE Username & Password? the connection is 200km drive from me to go change it

Can your friend install Team Viewer?

Catch with that is that if anything goes wrong, they could end up with no internet at all and Tim faces a nice drive ;)

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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nztim

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#2639440 21-Jan-2021 10:16

xpd:

Catch with that is that if anything goes wrong, they could end up with no internet at all and Tim faces a nice drive ;)

As Above :)

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

ohmer

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#2639822 21-Jan-2021 17:51

VygrNetworkMonkey:

Voyager supports PPPoE with VLAN 10 by default - you can request the VLAN tag to be removed if you desire.
We do not support IPoE/DHCP currently - we are testing it, but no plans at this stage to release it into the wild. Yet.

IPv6 assignments are free, (/64 link, /56 delegated/static) regardless of your IPv4 addressing - but if you do want a static IP, its as @michaelmurfy says - one off cost of $14.95

If you have any further queries, hit me up!

Hi @VygrNetworkMonkey,

Can be a guinea pig for your IPoE/DHCP implementation if that helps. I have worked as a network engineer for 10 years with lots of hands on experience. I am doing cloud stuff now but I managed my own gear at home since FreeBSD 4.5 (early 2000).

Very happy with the one off cost of a static IP. Do you request it on order or post order? Couldn't see the option in the ordering process. Nice clean website btw, congrats to your web devs.

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