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Kingfisher

9 posts

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#290215 28-Oct-2021 09:02
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Hi Everyone,

 

I start by apologising for knowing so little.  I realise there are a lot well educated and telco experts on this forum but that's why I have come here. To get help. My second apology is that this forum has probably already answered my question but I have no idea where to start looking, I mean 'advocacy' is such a broad search term! 

 

So, I know everybody complains about their internet speed being too slow and my request for help is no different. In broad terms I need someone or some group to tell me what I can do or cant do about slow internet. I don't mean simple advice about upgrading my plan. Heck, if such a beast existed, I would have bought it in a flash.

 

So here is the background. I live in the northwest of Auckland in a rural zone and am currently on a VDSL plan receiving on most days nothing better than 5Mbps. Often much less to the point of it just being a stop/start stuttering mess. WFH during this and previous Covid lockdowns has made Zoom sessions just an embarrassment and does place my job in jeopardy if I can't do reasonable business from home. Zoom sessions with my children and grandchildren trapped in Singapore and those unable to be visited in Wellington due to Auckland's border closures are again stop/start affairs that simply lose their meaning,  immersion and any togetherness that we so much crave at this time.  My wife simply cries after attempts to finish her lessons with her music teacher on Zoom.  It is awfully depressing and I would happily pay whatever is necessary to upgrade to the best fibre connection I could get...if it existed. But it doesn't. It seems our road was not deigned worthy enough to receive such expensive technology and while I understand the economic reasons for this it is heartbreaking when the alternative is almost as good as nothing.

 

We are 7km from our nearest exchange and my understanding is that for distance on copper wire, 5Mbps is about all you could expect. We have lived on this road for 23 years but of course more people have shifted in and more subscribers are using these old lines now. One Chorus technician who has looked after lines in this area for many years said to me the lines were "sub- standard, worn out, patched up too many times and prone to flooding". We certainly notice the decrease in speed when heavy rains hit. If I understand correctly, this all leads to continuous data crashes and coupled with distance from exchange, worn out infrastructure and peak time usage, the internet just ceases to exist at the times we most need it. And, we pay almost $90/month to our ISP for that privilege although I know this is not the ISP's fault. The idea of streaming Netflix is just that.. an idea. Well almost. There are times when it cooperates but more often than not it is downgraded visually in order to keep the picture moving. 

 

So what have I done to help myself. Well, naturally I rang my ISP but as I alluded to before, it is not really their issue but the very kind CS guy did suggest that if I wanted, I could have fibre laid to my house but he cautioned that given my distance from the exchange, he estimated this could be in the order of half a million dollars. I think what he was really trying to say was 'fat chance'.

 

So I thought about going rural wireless as these have been trumpeted by the big three providers.  I had been warned that a wireless solution may not be all it is cracked up to be but anything that gave just 10Mbps fairly consistently would satisfy most of my requirements. 2 Degs are even offering a free two month trial which I thought was pretty handy to test the concept. After looking at their maps of coverage, in all cases, my location was outside their range. I rang each of them to effectively say there must be some mistake or misunderstanding. I live on the crest of a 600 foot high hill and I can see the Sky Tower which is just 30km away in a straight line!! But alas, the answer remained unchanged. Rural wireless is unavailable from any telco in my location. 

 

Hot spotting was the next solution. My company phone does not have hotspotting enabled but the experience from both my Spark and my wife's personal Vodafone plan with 2GB data is that 4G is flakey at best and calls get dropped frequently. And my hotspot on my wife's phone only gets the same 5Mbps, when its not dropping out. Another coverage issue it would seem. So I haven't risked investing in that.  Maybe Starlink is the next solution but is that just grasping at rainbows?

 

Why, when living 30 km away from NZ's largest metropolis, in a country where we are ranked at 23rd in the global average internet speeds at 170Mbps, do I suffer speeds so tragic that on a really good day I surpass only Turkmenistan and Cuba at the the bottom of the world list? 

 

So what else can I do apart from shifting house? Who do I talk to? Is there some plan that Chorus release publicly the might suggest fibre is coming to our street in the next two months, (yes 😁) or more likely that it is never coming to our street so long as there is still heat in the Sun 😯?  Is there an advocacy group who take these sorts of issues to our parliamentarians in some organised and larger scale way? Or do I prepare a case to present to my local MP?

 

My wife is under enormous stress at the moment since we cannot see our family in Wellington and the internet just sux for zoom so we are effectively cut off. Yes of course we 'Whats App' everyday but you know what I mean. The internet is important to everyone's lives at the moment and it just seems so unfair that so much of the country has been satisfied to one degree or another in this regard while we seem to languish in the third world. 

 

I'm sure you can sense my frustration and it is born out of confinement and uncertainty, a sense of unfairness and helplessness. I sense there is no answer except it is what it is, andno one can really help,  but it doesn't make it any easier. 

 

Thanks for listening guys and any suggestions for either advocacy or technical solutions would be appreciated 🙂 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Terry 


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wellygary
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  #2802457 28-Oct-2021 09:19
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First up ,to workout what future plans are for your area,  where exactly are you,"

 

A Road is fine, house number is not required,

 

 

 

Have a squizz at this site and see what is available in your region, 

 

https://broadbandmap.nz/home

 

+ if all else fails there is now satellite BB available via starlink...




Linux
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  #2802459 28-Oct-2021 09:22
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Moving back to ADSL2+ may improve your internet speed


  #2802518 28-Oct-2021 09:38
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Given the distance, it's unlikely that this will help, but it may be worth trying anyway: have you tried connecting the modem directly to the incoming phone line, or having a master splitter installed? This will minimise the impact of any wiring faults in your house. @coffeebaron may be able to help if you can't DIY this - I think this would count as essential?

 

 

 

There are some smaller WISPs that use their own gear rather than the mobile networks' cellsites, like @myfullflavour. Consider contacting them and their competitors. https://fullflavour.nz/

 

 

 

Ask your ISP to ask Chorus for a proper fibre quote. It *might* be a bunch cheaper, depending on where the fibre is. You might also be able to arrange to share this amongst neighbours - if there are ~20 houses that get onboard, the costs could be a lot more palatable.




quickymart
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  #2802523 28-Oct-2021 09:42
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Your distance from a main centre, or the Sky Tower (or any other landmark) means 0 as to what you'll get for broadband services. Your distance to the exchange is relevant though. I'm surprised you even got VDSL at all at that distance.

 

I would look into rural broadband again as a suggestion; a relative has this and they installed an aerial on the side of his property to provide him with service (although his cellphone coverage was fine). His copper was shocking, but now he has reasonably good, reliable rural broadband.


pih

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  #2802570 28-Oct-2021 10:52
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Similar story (and location, incidentally) to you. We had 1.5-4Mbps ADSL which would drop out a few times a day. We ordered Starlink and have been mostly happy with it. Check out the Starlink thread for details. It's a little pricey and not flawless, but for now it meets our needs until something better comes along. And besides the initial outlay we're not locked into a contract which was a real selling point for us - a lot of rural services like you to sign up for 24 months it seems.

 

Other options to consider:

 

  • Get a cheap sim card from the other big mobile companies (2deg/VF), grab their cheapest data plan, slap it in an old phone with hotspotting and test speeds at different times of the day. While data caps are much lower, you may find that the service is more reliable and you can use things like 2 Degrees Data Clock to get a free data each day for streaming/downloading. If that works and you find a suitable plan that meets your data needs, you could consider a 4G modem/router for a more permanent solution.
  • Check out https://broadbandmap.nz/ and see which wireless providers service your area. Wireless coverage has been expanding recently, we got a flyer in our mailbox just last month.
  • If you know of someone with a fast, stable internet connection who is within line-of-sight (even 5-10km away), maybe talk to them about sharing the cost and set up a wireless point-to-point link. It's not too difficult, there are people here who can help you out. While it's probably against the ISP's TOS and there are other risks, it might be something worth considering.

Lias
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  #2802716 28-Oct-2021 13:01
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Kingfisher:

 

... I would happily pay whatever is necessary to upgrade to the best fibre connection I could get...

 

... Maybe Starlink is the next solution but is that just grasping at rainbows?...

 

 

Hi Terry,

 

Just to zero in on a couple of your statements.

 

If that's not just a figure of speech and money truly isn't an issue, you can get fibre. Chorus will do non subsidized installs outside the government coverage zone at your cost. Prices can vary quite drastically, but to give you some indication, I think the lowest quote I've heard of was high 4 figures, quite a few in the 15-30k range, and some up to ten times that. It's a steep investment up front but for some people it's worth it, at least one GZ'er has gone ahead with it.

 

Starlink also has an upfront cost, not quite in the same league but by all accounts is actually a pretty good service and certainly sounds viable for you if bespoke fibre isn't an option.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.


myfullflavour
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  #2802728 28-Oct-2021 13:12
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Find your local WISP here:

https://www.wispa.nz/wispa-nz-members/

Check Chorus future fibre plans for your address here:

https://www.chorus.co.nz/tools-support/broadband-tools/broadband-checker

Note, if the tool does not indicate a date e.g. "Coming Mar 2022" for fibre, but instead says "Available on request", then there are no plans to roll regular UFB past your gate. You instead need to request a rural fibre quote, also known as NGA On Application. That means you'll be paying the cost of getting UFB to your gate (which in some cases can involve using existing non-UFB fibre that's already run past your address).

Request a Chorus rural fibre quote here:

https://fullflavour.nz/rural-broadband/rural-fibre



At this point in time, it's unlikely your area will attract further investment from rural broadband companies - we are also seeing the appetite for community-funded rural broadband solutions dry up, now that North Island can access Starlink. Yes, it'll cost you $900-$1500 (including rooftop installation) to get going, but it's more cost effective than other types of community broadband infrastructure via wireless or fibre.

Jump on the Starlink waitlist here:

https://www.starlink.com

richms
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  #2802793 28-Oct-2021 13:41
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Choosing a rural property and expecting urban services like reticulated water, sewerage, in some cases power and other things that a dense environment allows for is not reasonable. Starlink is now an option which is probably the best option, otherwise look at the rural ISPs as already mentioned.

 

If you are planning on staying at the property for a long time then the cost to get a fiber connection put on be nothing compared to the costs of relocation to somewhere with the services that you now find you need, and the capital gains you will have already experienced on the property.

 

It is not reasonable to expect that telcos or the govt subsidise your choice of lifestyle by living in the middle of nowhere, and the costs you spend on getting the connection will be improving the value of the site if you choose to subdivide or sell it at a later stage.





Richard rich.ms

coffeebaron
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  #2802797 28-Oct-2021 13:44
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Feel free to message me your address and I can look into a couple of things. Do you have line of site to the Waitakere ranges?




Rural IT and Broadband support.

 

Broadband troubleshooting and master filter installs.
Starlink installer - one month free: https://www.starlink.com/?referral=RC-32845-88860-71 
Wi-Fi and networking
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Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


linw
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  #2802932 28-Oct-2021 15:40
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You've come to the right place for help! I hope some reasonable solution can be found.


Kingfisher

9 posts

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  #2803157 28-Oct-2021 21:55
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Hi Everyone,

 

 

 

First of all thank you all for your thoughtful responses....except for @richms. Seems I must have upset Geekzone's resident political commissar triggering a party political broadcast 🙄!!  Oh well! Anyway, suggestions that I continue to pursue the rural wireless path or consider Starlink seemed most popular and this was supported by @Wellygary and @pih who both linked a NZ Broadband map which I had never seen before. 

 

Boy did that open my eyes when I saw all the rural wireless providers around the country.  I have only really been thinking of the three main providers but once I put my address in I got this: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However I still remained a bit skeptical because VF were listed as available when in fact their coverage map didn't reach to my place and when I spoke to them, they agreed my location was not in fact covered.  So I thought I would give Stratanet a call since they seemed to have some pretty good speed plans which on the face of it anyway, Connecta did not seem to have so much of.  Still with everything I have experienced so far I didn't hold out a lot of hope. But to my surprise and elation, the Stratanet guy was very positive that coverage was in fact available subject to a technician test of course but he was very sure it would be ok.

 

During the course of the conversation I asked why it was that Stratanet could do this but none of the other bigger providers could? (while quietly thinking to myself, up until the responses I got from you guys, why had I not known about Stratanet, I have never heard of them!).  He said they had their own equipment so didn't rely on the other guys fixed installations and towers so they cover the areas they wanted to.  I asked if by equipment and towers did he meant something like a pole with a whole lot of antenna on it that I was looking at out of my window and that I saw go up about a month ago? " Let me see?" he said, "mmm,.. yep, that's about 1. 2 km from your place and its our new repeater."  I was flabbergasted! He emailed me the application and I will send it off tomorrow unless one of you experts warns me off for some reason? 

 

I told my wife that we may have a solution,  a 30Mbps rural wireless plan that being line of site and not far away should hopefully see us reach somewhere near that speed . This means family zooms without crashes and disconnects and she can have uninterrupted lessens with her music instructor. She was ecstatic and I haven't seen her that happy for ages. And, it's all down to you guys.  Personally I am looking forward to team and business meetings where I can hear and see everyone!

 

Geez I am disappointed in myself though. How did I not know about these guys? I have not seem their name anywhere. When I saw the pole suddenly appear on the horizon with some antennas on it I just thought it was something to do with the farm building next to it. So, all afternoon and tonight I've just been stopping about every 15 mins shaking my head and saying WOW!!    

 

 

 

So thankyou everyone (even richms who to be fair, also suggested rural wireless or Starlink) .

 

I think the final word should go to @Linw who gave me not a suggestion, but a reason for hope! 

 

"You've come to the right place for help"! @Linw said

 

 

 

Never a truer word...  

 

 

 

👍👍


freitasm
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  #2803164 28-Oct-2021 22:15
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Kingfisher:

 

Seems I must have upset Geekzone's resident political commissar triggering a party political broadcast 🙄!! 

 

 

This part was uncalled for - leave this type of comment out of the discussion.





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quickymart
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  #2803167 28-Oct-2021 22:20
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Kingfisher:

 

Boy did that open my eyes when I saw all the rural wireless providers around the country.  I have only really been thinking of the three main providers but once I put my address in I got this: 

 

 

 

 

 

No image attached?


freitasm
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  #2803168 28-Oct-2021 22:22
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The image doesn't exist or is not shared to public view - easier to just drag and drop the original into the reply here.





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Kingfisher

9 posts

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  #2803171 28-Oct-2021 22:29
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Sorry guys, hope you can see this one  .

 

 

 

 


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