Need some help on picking the right desktop build!

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Gameowner

23 posts

Geek

#165606 14-Feb-2015 21:36

Hi all, long time lurker but this time need some help on picking out a new desktop. There are 3 builds here to consider but struggling to think which one is better. I'm not a huge gamer (when I say huge, I don't PC game at all). However, I use my computers to run stuff like CAD and other simulation programs (I'm a Structural Engineer). And most of the time my systems stay on for long periods of time so those are really the only things to consider. Please advise what I should/should not change etc, thank you all!

Build 1
Case: White H440
CPU: 4790K
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M
Mobo: Gigbabyte Z97X Gaming 3
RAM: G.Skill Sniper 2x8GB 2400MHz
SSD: 256GB M550 Crucial
HDD: 1TB Blue WD
WIFI: Gigabyte AC wireless + bluetooth
GPU: Leadtek NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB Workstation GPU
PSU: Raidmax Cobra 500W Gold Rated PSU
LED: White LED Strip
OS: Windows 8.1 64-Bit
DVD Drive: NIL (no space for it in the H440)

Build 2
Case: White H440
CPU: 4790K
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M
Mobo: Gigbabyte Z97X Gaming 3
RAM: G.Skill Sniper 2x8GB 2400MHz
SSD: 256GB M550 Crucial
HDD: 1TB Blue WD
WIFI: Gigabyte AC wireless + bluetooth
GPU: Leadtek NVIDIA Quadro K4200 4GB Workstation GPU
PSU: Raidmax Cobra 500W Gold Rated PSU
LED: White LED Strip
OS: Windows 8.1 64-Bit
DVD Drive: NIL (no space for it in the H440)

Build 3
Case: White H440
CPU: 4790K
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 120V
Mobo: Gigbabyte Z97X Gaming 3
RAM: G.Skill Sniper 2x8GB 2400MHz
SSD: 256GB M550 Crucial
HDD: 1TB Blue WD
WIFI: Gigabyte AC wireless + bluetooth
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 4GB Gaming GPU
PSU: Corsair 850W RM-850
LED: White LED Strip
OS: Windows 8.1 64-Bit
DVD Drive: NIL (no space for it in the H440)

Xeon

302 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1239184 14-Feb-2015 23:44

I would stay away from that Raidmax PSU (and most other Raidmax PSUs):

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1804779/power-supply-unit-tier-list.html

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/03/18/raidmax_cobra_power_500w_supply_review/3#.U-7E3fmSxe4

Also possibly different ram unless it's the same price; I wouldn't pay (very much) extra for 2400 Mhz RAM as the difference is negligible

Gameowner

23 posts

Geek

#1239205 15-Feb-2015 00:45

Awesome! Thank you for your help. Those were just build recommendations given to me after I supplied to them what I would need the build for. Are there any types of power supplies or RAM you can suggest in this case? I've heard about the Raidmax PSU problems before but never really researched them. I'm moderately ok with computers but definitely not on par with some of you guys around here.

I've had numerous problems with PSU in the past with the system I have now. So would definitely like to have something that's more durable.

Xeon

302 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1239209 15-Feb-2015 01:16

The first link I posted shows the ranking of PSUs, ideally you would want something from Tier One or Tier Two (Corsair/EVGA/Seasonic/Silverstone etc.).
RAM just get whatever 1600 mhz stick is cheapest (of a well known brand).

You want a Nvidia Quadro card because they're made for CAD etc; what one I have no idea.
i7-4790K is the best you'll get without going overboard and switching to X99/Server motherboards. Both the CPU coolers above will be decent if you plan to overclock or just keep it fairly cool regardless.
Motherboard is possibly a little overkill (I'm rubbish at picking a good motherboard though).
Possibly might want a 500GB SSD instead of 250GB, depends how big your programs are and working files are (if you want to store on SSD).
WD Blue could be switched to WD Black for better performance if you feel inclined.
Case and Wifi card is nice.

The Quadro card is possibly the most important choice but I can't help you there, the builds they put to you seem pretty decent though.

timmmay

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#1239250 15-Feb-2015 10:04

Samsung 840/850 evo (good) or pro (best) are a better SSD IMHO. Not sure you want a gaming motherboard, you want a solid professional motherboard with the expansion ports you need - SATA3 and USB3. SuperMicro are great, but hard to find and expensive in NZ.

Make sure the RAM is on the compatibility list for the motherboard, for stability that's important. For performance go for a WD Black drive, 2TB probably isn't much more expensive than 1TB. Stock cooler is all you need, but get a couple of good brand case fans - the ones that come with cases can be underpowered. Go for ethernet rather than WiFi if at all possible. If your case doesn't have room for a DVD drive that's a bad sign - make sure there's space for another SSD and at least another two hard drives. If there's space to add a fan by the hard drives, do it. I'd probably go for the Quadro card, if there's any actual advantage - look for software compatibility with both cards you're considering.

Stu

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#1239267 15-Feb-2015 10:53

As above, whatever else you end up with, get the highest spec Quadro card you can that's compatible with your chosen software. You'll kick yourself later if you don't.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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Mark

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#1239388 15-Feb-2015 14:48

Do you already have a screen to use ? That's where I'd spend a large chunk of the money as it's the thing you look at most.

MindstormNZ1972

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1239499 15-Feb-2015 17:44

Build 2 is the one I would choose with some changes. Motherboard is a overkill and I would bump up the PSU. Its important to choose the correct driver for your Quadro that is optimised for the application you intend to use. 21:9 Monitor would be a very good choice for CAD.

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Gozer

184 posts

Master Geek

#1239548 15-Feb-2015 19:24

I wouldn't use any of those builds, they're gaming builds and slightly iffy ones at that as others have said.

Really need to know specifics about your software as others have said. Different software has different needs for the graphics acceleration.

Motherboard is well overkill you don't want a gaming motherboard.
You don't need a water cooler for your CPU, a good air cooler will cover your needs.
You don't need to spend $324.58 on that ram you can get 16gig at slower speed for nearly $100 less and you wont know the difference.
The case is up to you depending on looks, could spend less quite easily.
Go for a Samsung SSD
Will you be using WIFI? only use it if you really have to.
Do you have a copy of windows 7 you can use? At this point (unless your not good at migrating OS) I would use windows 7 for a bit longer (assuming you have a copy) and then get the free upgrade to windows 10 when its released.
If you don't plan on using windows 10 in the future or maybe if your graphics software might not work then 8.1 will be much faster then 7

Gameowner

23 posts

Geek

#1239611 15-Feb-2015 21:35

Thank you all for your very informative replies, they're helpful. When you get given builds it's often quite hard to know where to get a truthful answer. Obviously if you ask the person provided those builds they'll say they're the best in the business haha.

Anyway, in terms of software that I run the most intensive ones would probably be SolidWorks, CAD Inventor and CAD Civil 3D. On top of that, a dozen of other programs but they aren't nearly as intensive (programs like BlueBeam Revu, SAP2000 etc which most of the time only requires AMD or a dual core to run well). Inventor is the most intensive one, currently lists 8Gb minimum RAM (recommended 12) with an i7 at 3.0Ghz or greater for the 2015 version. For larger models, it recommends 16Gb of Ram and 3.3Ghz or higher (When they say larger models, meaning simulations that are more complex etc). So really, the specs provided by all 3 builds would be on par in terms of these requirements.

That being said, I'm well aware that these builds are mostly gaming builds as they are originally gaming rigs, but I thought in terms of performance, gaming PC's would probably be the closest thing to what I am after and the easiest to modify into a machine that I need.

Xeon: Yea the quadro card would definitely be the one I need. Will keep the other recommendations in mind, as you can see everyone else is suggesting the SSD and HDD change so might have to look into that.

timmay: Yea, will look into the SSD for sure.

BigHammer: Yep! These CAD programs jump up a lot in terms of requirements from year to year. As you can see the requirements I posted above, they require pretty much top of the line components every year. But that being said, they're only recommended for a smooth operation so even if you have something lower it doesn't matter all that much.

Mark: I'm looking at getting 2 new 24inch screens also, any recommendations bud?

Mindstorm: Thank you for that, build 2 is actually the best one out of them all. I've omitted the prices for them all, build 2 is also the most expensive :)

Gozer: Thank you! Anything you suggest then? I can pass those onto the guy and see what he can do. I specified to him that the RAM I would need some good ones for the purposes I posted above, as you can see the RAM requirement is right up there. Same with the cooling, most of the time the PC's I use won't be turned off at all. The PC I'm using atm for simulations hasn't been turned off in about 4 months or longer and gets quite hot while more complex simulations are running.

Windows 7 is something I was going to ask about but forgot. The CAD software atm lists 64-bit windows 7 being the lowest compatible one. I've never had the pleasure of using Windows 8 but heard it's a bit of a bust so I'm really not that fond of upgrading to it. I've checked my software and while they are all compatible with it, I'm reluctant to go 8 when 7 works just as fine. But I'm willing to hear suggestions from you guys.

So I guess the general consensus is to change the SSD to a samsung one, WD blue to WD black.

Gozer

184 posts

Master Geek

#1239627 15-Feb-2015 23:04

Have you looked at 4K screens and do you prefer multiple monitors? Some professionals seeming to be moving away for multiple monitors in favor of larger single monitors.
I think it will come down to your workflow what works best, but you will want to do some planning ahead with your build if you want 4k.

As for windows you should move away from windows 7, windows 8.1 does a lot better job of some of the core functionality and gets some performance benefits from this. There is a hatred of the UI but in reality its not that bad and of course once your in a program you'll never know.
The reason for my question was because windows 10 is (from what weve seen) going to be better than 7 or 8.1 and will be free for a period so you could get better than 8.1 for zero money.

Like I and somebody else said its not the amount of ram that is over kill, you should get as much as you can afford but the speed rating of the ram that has been spec'd.
Ram speeds have got to a point where they are faster than other areas of the computer so your not going to notice the speed of the faster ram. You would be better spending the extra money on more ram or a bigger SSD or a better graphics card.
You should do some investigations on how much memory you are using when working on some of your larger models. you want to have enough space to try and keep it all in RAM and not have it on the hard drive even if it is SSD.

Gameowner

23 posts

Geek

#1239635 15-Feb-2015 23:39

Gozer:

I'm using dual 24's atm and works perfectly. My work space just doesn't warrant larger monitors (i.e 27). It is a space that is much better with 24's next to each other. Most of us that do what we do have dual monitors for the reason that most of what we do rely on having the working model of the structure we're designing on one screen and the other displaying various other things (emails, word, excel w/e). 4k isn't necessary, the things I do really aren't as display graphics intensive as your graphic designers etc. As long as I can see different colour spectrum easily it's fine. Anything more than that (i.e 4k features, response time etc) are just there for personal enjoyment stuff (i.e. watching movies etc).

In regards to ram as i don't have the latest versions of the software that I use, I cannot comment on those versions. But the ones I have use about 6-8Gb while I'm using it. As much as I want to say 16Gb is sufficient, I'm just not so sure....Is there any type of RAM you can suggest I can use? If I can afford to downgrade the type of ram currently suggested, maybe I can squeeze 32Gb in there without upping the price too much. The Quadro card in there atm would probably be more than enough for what I need, it would be hard to find something better at this current moment.

Jase2985

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#1239676 16-Feb-2015 08:03

why not throw 2x 8gb sticks in there and that leaves you 2x ram slots if 16gb isnt enough? if your worried too much about the budget.