Beginner looking for help with home networking

Forums › LAN (ethernet/Wifi/routers/Bluetooth) › Beginner looking for help with home networking

jafanz

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#207488 28-Dec-2016 12:52

Hi All,

Firstly, before I get started, I do apologise for being very green when it comes to networking in general.

Quick info: Spark 100/20 fibre plan - Technicolor TG587n (Two routers) - currently using powerline networking

Straight to the point, I would like to use the already installed home network wiring in my home.

However, I have a few issues that prevent me from doing so.

The first being that only one end of the network cables have been terminated (the ones connected to the wall sockets) while the other ends are just sitting in the main cable/data box in the garage (a small issue to my knowledge regarding the terminating of cables).

The second issue that I do not have enough knowledge in is that I have two routers. One in the data box and another right next to the ONT. The data box and ONT are both in the garage but different locations.

The router next to the ONT is the one I'm currently using to access the internet and where my powerline network is too.

I was trying to see if I could somehow figure this out myself and have noticed that I must have the WAN port connected in the databox connected to the router thats in there, if I don't the router next to the ONT does not connect to the internet.

I have tried just connecting a laptop via LAN to the router in the databox to test if it can connect to the internet but that's a no go as well.

Even tried connecting the two routers via LAN but cannot get an internet connection through the databox router that way too.

Again, I am very green when it comes to this kind of thing and I'm sure there are simple explanations for why my attempts don't work.

I would appreciate any help or advice. I know I could always ask for professional help but I kind of want to learn how to do these kinds of things myself.

Thanks in advance!

1 | 2 | 3

428 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1695830 28-Dec-2016 14:27

just my 2 cents worth,

It's a bit of a mess, who installed the data box?

The ONT should have been installed in the data box in the garage and your router should be run from there to make the most of the data cabling so you can run the phone, data around the house as you need to using the data jacks around the house. The second router can be used as additional wireless access point.

All the Cat 5 or 6 cables should be terminated on a patch panel to make the most of them. From what I can see, it looks like the grey cables are for phone?

What else is in the data box?

Spyware

3762 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1695832 28-Dec-2016 14:28

If you connect both via LAN interfaces then you would get an IP address conflict (as both devices have same IP address). If connect to data box router WAN interface then it has the same subnet on both interfaces and thus will not route.

Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.

shrub

775 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#1695834 28-Dec-2016 14:37

My guess is it is a new build(within 4 years) and a sparky has wired it. To be blunt id rip it all out and start again. The ONT should be in the data cabinet and there should be a patch panel with cat5/6 not the cat3(grey wires). Perhaps a 2nd cabinet for data and leave this one for alarm and POTS lines.

shrub

775 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#1695835 28-Dec-2016 14:37

tangerz

625 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1695866 28-Dec-2016 15:03

That looks like quite a birds nest!

OK, lets call the ONT router as 'Router 1' and the 'databox' router as 'Router 2'. So from the pictures it looks like:

ONT port 1 -> red cable -> Router 1 WAN port

Router 1 LAN 1 -> blue cable -> ??? Router 2 LAN 4 ???

Router 1 LAN 4 -> grey cable -> Powerline device

??? ONT ATA port (telephone) -> grey cable -> 'databox' telephone patch panel ???

??? Router 2 WAN port -> red cable -> 'white box' ???

??? 'databox' telephone patch panel -> grey cables -> telephone outlets around house ???

??? 'databox' unterminated blue cables -> terminated data outlets around house ???

Biggest question is what is Router 2 WAN port connected to???

Other than that, (if all my above ??? assumptions ??? are correct), to achieve what you want:

Terminate blue cables in 'databox' either to patch panel or directly with RJ-45 plugs, which connect to Switch ->

Buy a Switch (Gigabit is best) with at least the number data outlets around house + 1 (for connecting router)

Remove Router 2 entirely.

Remove Router 1 from by ONT. Connect blue cable (currently connected to Router 1 LAN 1) to ONT port 1

Remove powerline device(s) (should no longer be needed)

Place Router 1 in 'databox'. Blue cable (currently in Router 2 LAN 4) goes to Router 1 WAN.

Connect Router 1 LAN 4 to Switch (any port should do)

That should do it.... but only if my assumptions were correct!

My guess is the second router (Router 1 by ONT) was added to connect the powerline device to allow data around the house (in leiu of using the data cabling.. who knows why!)

And again... What is the Router 2 WAN port connected to?

jafanz

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1695909 28-Dec-2016 17:35

Firstly, thanks to all that have replied so far and a couple quick comments and answers.

We moved into this house about 2012 (and to my knowledge this house was built in 2007) and the area I live in was actually part of the trial Telecom were doing for fibre back in 2006(?).

And as some of you have mentioned, the ONT should have been installed in or at the very least next to the databox but the current position is where it has always been since I moved into the house.

I didn't actually realise there was a second router until I opened the databox one day.

As for the databox, the grey cables to my understanding are phone lines as each bedroom has two RJ45 inputs and TV aerial on the one face plate in the rooms.

The white cables are the tv cables and the alarm system is also in the databox.

I would love to start all over again but obviously with my lack of understanding, I'd do more harm than good.

And tangerz, I will try to figure out if "Router 1 LAN 1 -> blue cable -> ??? Router 2 LAN 4"

Although would it make any sense at all if Router 1 LAN 1 -> blue cable -> white box -> red cable -> Router 2 WAN port? (would that explain the whole Router 2 disconnected WAN 2 port = Router 1 no internet)

Again, I really appreciate all the help guys.

Spyware

3762 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1695911 28-Dec-2016 17:40

As I explained above, the two devices have the same IP address, if you connect the LAN interfaces together you get an IP address conflict. If you connect router 1 LAN to router 2 WAN then router 2 has the same subnet on both its WAN and LAN interfaces and will not route anything to the internet.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

jafanz

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1695914 28-Dec-2016 17:48

Sorry for having had to explain it twice to me Spyware

I think I understand what you are saying now and knowing that, what tangerz has suggested (assuming the assumptions are correct) then it sounds like it should work if I follow it correctly.

Can't wait to try sort this out when I get back home.

nickb800

2719 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1695916 28-Dec-2016 18:01

If you let us know whereabouts in the country you are, perhaps a local geekzoner may be able to help get you started. One of us that's done this before should be able to figure out what's going on and come up with a game plan in half an hour, and then you can follow the plan in your own time

jafanz

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1695955 28-Dec-2016 19:22

oh I'm in the Mission Heights/ Flat Bush area in Auckland. I've yet to try anything else yet as I'm currently out for the day.

I am open to getting help from anyone in person too if they are keen :)

ANglEAUT

2325 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1695975 28-Dec-2016 20:34

OK, now that I know you are so close to Botany, I will analyse the photos in more details.

I do have some spare time currently. Glad to help. Send me a PM.

I've never dealt with a ONT, but am very familiar with the local networking part of it.

Cheers.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

DarthKermit

5346 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1695979 28-Dec-2016 20:42

IcI:

OK, now that I know you are so close to Botany, I will analyse the photos in more details.

I do have some spare time currently. Glad to help. Send me a PM.

I've never dealt with a ONT, but am very familiar with the local networking part of it.

Cheers.

You won't be able to relocate the ONT for him. You need specalised and very expensive gear to join fibre optic cables together.

tangerz

625 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1695984 28-Dec-2016 21:23

jafanz:

We moved into this house about 2012...

...I didn't actually realise there was a second router until I opened the databox one day.

And tangerz, I will try to figure out if "Router 1 LAN 1 -> blue cable -> ??? Router 2 LAN 4"

Although would it make any sense at all if Router 1 LAN 1 -> blue cable -> white box -> red cable -> Router 2 WAN port? (would that explain the whole Router 2 disconnected WAN 2 port = Router 1 no internet)

So I'm assuming from your above comments that Router 1 was the router you brought with you when you moved in and you installed it by the ONT and with the powerline device?

And no, that cable configuration wouldn't (I think) explain the 'disconnect Router 2 WAN no internet Router 1'... unless there is some strange setup here...

A couple of other questions:

Does the blue cable connected to Router 1 LAN 1 just go into the wall with the grey cable under the ONT?

Is the blue cable currently connected to Router 2 LAN 4 the only blue cable terminated in the 'databox'

And... what is the 'white box' connected to Router 2 WAN (and what else is it connected to?)

ANglEAUT

2325 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1695986 28-Dec-2016 21:37

DarthKermit:

IcI: I've never dealt with a ONT, but am very familiar with the local networking part of it.

You won't be able to relocate the ONT for him. You need specalised and very expensive gear to join fibre optic cables together.

Hi DarthKermit.

Not planning on moving any fiber cables. I can however eliminate duplicate IP address for the routers, I can doublecheck that the blue cables are actually connected somewhere in the house.I can make sure that the correct box initiates the Internet connection. Besides, I don't even have a crimping tool for normal network cables. This will be no more than a quick visual inspection & some advice.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

jafanz

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1695993 28-Dec-2016 21:58

Hey tangerz,

Router 1 was given to me when I joined up with Spark and you would be correct that I installed it by the ONT (as per instructions from the box).

As for the powerline device that was added later on because I hated the look of running an ethernet cable through the house to my PC (as I'm sure a lot of you here would too.

Does the blue cable connected to Router 1 LAN 1 just go into the wall with the grey cable under the ONT?

You would be correct there, it's literally just a blue cable that is sticking out from under the ONT box. Hence the lack of options for me to install my router anywhere other than there.

Is the blue cable currently connected to Router 2 LAN 4 the only blue cable terminated in the 'databox'

And yes to this question as well, it's a bit unclear to see but the other cat5e cables are just sitting in a hole at the back of the databox (each has been labelled "Bed 1" "Bed 2" and so forth, similar labelling with the tv cables).

The one cable that has been terminated, I actually can't remember if it was terminated before or after a Spark technician came in to check up on a very cracky phone line at the time (would have been nearly a year ago)

And... what is the 'white box' connected to Router 2 WAN (and what else is it connected to?)

I'm unable to answer with any certainty but my limited knowledge think it may be some kind of joiner? to a blue cable that follows up with the other cat5e cables.

lcl has kindly offered his help to check this out for me tomorrow as well so hopefully he'll be able to provide more clarity.

Can I ask what other possibilities are running through your mind tangerz?

1 | 2 | 3