decreased speed due to cabinetisation

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ltlman

24 posts

Geek

#65042 28-Jul-2010 11:56

Hi all,

Here is my issue. My current plan is the next big thing which for the last year has been problem free. While I didn't have terrific speeds I was able to connect at around 4MB/s.

3 weeks ago Chorus started putting in the new fiber cabinet at the end of the street, about 100m meters from our house. 2 weeks ago we lost all phone and internet for a week. After 2 call outs from Chorus we finally got it up and running again. However now we can only connect at 1.4MB/s.

After yet another call to Slingshot another fault was raised with Chorus to test the lines. The result is that the new cabinet has degraded the service and a 1.4MB/s connection is the best I can hope for.

But this is where it gets interesting. Slingshots solution to this is to put me on one of their new plans that they wholesale through Telecom. That would be fine apart for the following;

To get the same data/phone services it is going to cost an extra $15-$20 per month.

They still can't guarantee the new service will be faster than the current 1.4MB/s i'm getting at the moment.

They want ME to pay $50 for the conversion!!

I think I have been pretty tolerant up until now, but it is starting to wind me up. I thought cabinetisation was meant to increase speeds and make life better for all. How can it be the opposite for me??

Has anyone else been through this?? Is everyone just rolling over and paying the increase and fees??

It seems a common issue according to the numerous Slingshot staff I have talked to...

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203 posts

Master Geek

#357651 28-Jul-2010 12:20

Unfortunately this is normal (I think it's called midpoint injection?). You almost certainly will get better speeds on the Telecom wholesale connection.

Ragnor

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#357674 28-Jul-2010 12:48

Basically your line has been to a connected to a roadside cabinet as part of the government requirement that Telecom connect 80% of NZ homes at >10Mbit sync speed by ~2012.

Slingshot NBT is generally provided over Vodafone Red network ADSL equipment that is only installed in exchanges currently (called LLU aka local loop unbundling).

Vodafone (and others like Orcon, Telstra etc) have not installed gear in any cabinets due to the prices set by the commerce commission for sub loop unbundling not being that attactive.

This currently means your line is now connected to the cabinet but instead of terminating on equipment in the cabinet it is passed through back to the exchange. This causes a lot of problems.

So a few things here:

- You can blame the government for regulatory requirements on Telecom that aren't well thought out

- You can blame the government and commerce commission for how they've priced sub loop unbundling.

- You can blame Slingshot too as they never should have never sold you a LLU connection if you were scheduled to be cabinet'd (cabinetisation always known to be happening well before LLU went ahead).

The best result for you is to switch to a connection provided over Telecom wholesale equipment either with Slingshot or another ISP. The good news is that should connect at >10Mbit after that!

I wouldn't be keen on paying Slingshot $50, they never should have sold you a LLU plan or they should have pro-actively notified or moved you to a suitable plan before this became a problem.

richms

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#357724 28-Jul-2010 14:07

Tell them that the service is broken and you are not going to pay for it or any disconnections since it is all their fault that this has happened.

They are the ones with a contract with chorus, not you, any chorus changes are their problem to solve as they are the retailrs of the service.

Richard rich.ms

hellonearthisman

1819 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#357778 28-Jul-2010 15:36

Wow that's rough, Chorus have crippled your connection and it seems like they just don't care and Slingshot/Vodafone are not pushing them to repair the damage they have done.

Slingshot has also stopped sell The Next Big Thing but you should still be able to keep on that plan as they are not doing a forced migration. They are still reselling the Vodafone (or have they changed to using Orcon) as part of their new 'Better Network' plans.

I don't think you should have to pay the $50 if you change to one of the new plans as they are the ones that broke your net. But they might still not connect you to the cabinet as they can make more from connecting you to the 'better network' which is what your basically on now. Slingshots website site doesn't let pick which network you want to connect to so you may have to call the helpdesk to request that.

ltlman

24 posts

Geek

#357891 28-Jul-2010 18:41

I have told them that I wasn't prepared to pay the connection fee and that as a retailer I expected them to rectify the problem. I was then told that they would get someone to call me back.

And someone actually did!!

What they are planning on doing now is getting Chorus to bypass the cabinet and connect me back to the exchange in the hope that this will resolve the problem. They also mention that if this doesn't fix the issue they will pay the connection fee Telecom charge.

I did also mention that I didn't have a problem changing plans if i got an improved connection by going through the cabinet. And that if they we sending a technician out to bypass the cabinet for free then why not connect me to Telecoms gear for free instead.

Guess we will have to see what happens.

ltlman

24 posts

Geek

#366421 11-Aug-2010 20:16

Well we have finally made progress!!

They have connected me to Telecom's gear (for free :)) and we are back up and running, however I don't think we are getting the best out of it.

I am able to connect at 16Mb/s which is better than I have ever seen. However when I go to speedtest.net I'm only able to download at 4Mb/s. I know I'll never get the connection speed, but it doesn't seem to be any faster than it was prior to all this drama when we were connecting to the exchange 3 km away.

Is there something I need to change in my modem, or is this reasonable rate for the connection? I'm not really complaining at the speeds, just want to get the most out of it. I'm also looking at going Naked DSL and using iTalk or something similar so want to make sure the speeds will be adequate.

Here are my modem stats:

DSL Status:
Connected

DSL Modulation Mode:
ADSL2+

DSL Path Mode:
Fast

Downstream Rate:
16100 kbps

Upstream Rate:
170 kbps

Downstream Margin:
12 db

Upstream Margin:
13 db

Downstream Line Attenuation:
4 db

Upstream Line Attenuation:
0.5 db

Downstream Transmit Power:
12 db

Upstream Transmit Power:
16 db

scottr

262 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#366475 11-Aug-2010 21:31

looks like yo'ure 128k up., which will limit you to ~ 4mb download speeds., If you change to a FS/FS you'll get much faster speeds

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ltlman

24 posts

Geek

#366504 11-Aug-2010 22:00

Hmm that sounds about right, the upload is 120kb/s.

Might have to get back on the phone then. I specifically questioned them numerous times whether it was FS/FS which they confirmed it was.

The reason I questioned it was I stumbled across a cached web page that listed the Advanced plan as 128k up.

The new plans on their site say Fullspeed with the following note: Fullspeed means we'll pump internet to you as fast as your local exchange can handle!

This to me means it shouldn't be throttled.

hellonearthisman

1819 posts

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#366537 11-Aug-2010 22:46

Yes, they don't say what plans which say FS plans only have 128Kbps upload speeds on there updated website. They dont say what the plans are called, so cross referencing what the free data periods is hard to know as well. If you have one of the new FS/128kbps plans then your free data period is 4am-8am and not 2am-8am like it used to be. So you might want to check that out too.

Visibill should tell you what plan your on.

http://www.slingshot.co.nz/MyAccount/api/ can help you see what data your using

http://speedtest.slingshot.co.nz/ is Slingshots speed tester, it can give better results as it's national and not internation.

ltlman

24 posts

Geek

#366638 12-Aug-2010 09:25

I have just got of the phone to their call centre and apparently I should be grateful that I get those speeds cause he was only getting 2.5Mb/s!!! However I did point out that the new speeds are still slower than I used to get when connecting to the exchange 3km away.

He did mention that the account is still transitioning from the old plan so there maybe something yet to be put in place and that I should see how it goes over the next few days. Sounds like a stalling tactic to me! The old plan was FS/FS so why would I be limited now?

He also confirmed again that there is no throttling on the new plans.

ltlman

24 posts

Geek

#367053 13-Aug-2010 10:03

After a lengthy discussion on the phone last night it was established I had been put on the wrong plan. Apparently they left me on the Next Big Thing, but as I pointed out to them and they confirmed, that plan shouldn't have been throttled either.

Now I have to wait for the next billing period (which is next month) to see the changes even though it was their mistake.

I'm off to look at different ISP's. This has been an absolute joke!! I have had nothing but issues for over a month now!!

Do these telcos' rely on peoples ignorance who never check to see they are getting what they are paying for??

samgab

89 posts

Master Geek

#367711 15-Aug-2010 01:13

@ltlman
I just wanted to share my story, because it begins similarly, and at a similar time to yours, but with a different outcome, and especially as you are potentially looking for a new isp.

On 30 July 2010 Chorus flicked the switch on the new cabinet about a hundred feet from my house.
I live in Mangere Bridge, and our exchange is in Onehunga... 3.3 Kms of copper, if my calculation based on line attenuation is correct.

Our household is on LLU with Orcon "+", and had been getting about 5-6Mbps down and 800Kbps up, which is about right based on our distance from the exchange.

Then, after the lines went down and came back up again on 30/7, our down speed was now 2Mbps and up about the same as previously, or maybe a tiny bit better.

I didn't notice for a few days, till I tried to watch some streaming videos, and they wouldn't run.
So first I checked with speedtest.net, and found that we were only running at 2Mbps,
I restarted the router etc, and when I checked the router settings, I saw that the physical line rate was only 2Mbps, and although the attenuation was about the same, the line noise margin was very very low, about 3 dB.

I went to Orcon support, and did the usual things, restart router, line isolation, speed tests etc, and waited for a reply. Followed up the next day, and again the next day.
Eventually spoke to a techo, who indicated that in his opinion, speeds under 10Mbps didn't really cut the mustard as broadband.

Orcon would switch me off the LLU service, and onto Telecom's new equipment in the cabinet at their (Orcon's) cost, at max up/max down.

This plan should be an extra $10 per Month for the non LLU plan, limited to 4Mbps down/128Kbps up, and then another $10 per Month for the max/max of the equivalent plan as we are already on, but Orcon is going to wear that extra cost, they have said it won't be passed on to us.

They put through the request with Chorus straight away, but Chorus aren't coming out to the cabinet to do the switch over till tomorrow (16/8).

So, if you're interested, I'll do some speed tests after they switch over to the cabinet equipment, and report back.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the way Orcon have dealt with me, their customer, over this.
My line speed with their equipment degraded because of the changes that Chorus made, and fixing that is going to cost Orcon, but they aren't passing that cost on to me.
Admittedly, they would have been able to know when we signed up for the plan that a cabinet was in the pipeline, and that it would be likely to have that signal degradation effect to their Mangere Bridge customers. No mention of that was ever made to us, it just happened when Chorus switched over.

I'd seen the Chorus guys working in the cabinet for the preceding weeks, and wondered if it would have any effect. I sort of just assumed our speed would improve if anything, because I didn't fully understand how it worked with LLU plans.

sbiddle

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#367727 15-Aug-2010 08:05

One of the major gripes here is that ISP's sold customers LLU connections when they should never have provided service in the first place. Chorus/Telecom are not to blame here in any way - the issue lies solely with your ISP.

The issues of midpoint injection were well known and ISP's should not have signed up any customers to LLU connections who were ultimately going to be moved to cabinets. TelstraClear implimented this policy with their ULL rollout and I believe that all other ISP's rolling our ULL connections have now established the same policy.

At the end of the day they chose to provide services (for financial reasons) in the belief that midpoint inbjetion would not be as bad as Chorus had warned it would be. These warnings have proven to be accurate and it's been a major job for these ISP's who have had to reprovision their customers on wholesale circuits, which in many cases has meant different plans and prices.

samgab

89 posts

Master Geek

#368442 16-Aug-2010 23:43

Well, as promised, Chorus came out today and hooked me up to the cabinet, on wholesale...
Wow!!!
Currently:

Statistics
Downstream
Upstream

Line Rate
21075 Kbps
956 Kbps

Attainable Line Rate
24308 Kbps
1048 Kbps

Noise Margin
11.4 dB
7.6 dB

Line Attenuation
5.0 dB
3.6 dB

Output Power
0.0 dBm
12.6 dBm

Which I must say I'm pretty pleased with. About as fast as ADSL2+ can be. Niiiice.
And speedtest:
Down at 18.7Mbps
Up at 0.81Mbps (meh, who cares)
Ping at 21ms.

Stewhard

1 post

Wannabe Geek

#369144 18-Aug-2010 10:12

Download Speed: 8503 kbps (1062.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 497 kbps (62.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 639 ms
Jitter: 137 ms
Packet Loss: 10 %

At the start time of writing, that is what the Slingshot speedtest is showing for me.

On Sunday (August 15th), I noticed our internet was running slow. 900+ ping on TF2 servers, which I usually get 30-60. Even browsing was like using dial-up again. So I called Slingshot on Monday, the guy I talked to was really helpful - even though he did just get me to do the isolation test, which I had already done. He said to call back in 24 hours if there was no improvement and they'll maybe send out a technician. 24 hours later, which was yesterday, there was no improvement.

The guy I talked to told me to do the isolation test etc again. After being put on hold a few more times, he tells me it's because my interleaving is turned off. I asked him why all of a sudden our internet starts playing up, even when we've had interleaving off since May.
I told him there had recently been a cabinet installed in my area, but he thought nothing of it. He also said we were not on ADSL2+ even though we're running through Telecom Wholesale or whatever it's called, not too sure what the story is there... So basically he told me he'll have interleaving turned back on within the next three days and that should fix the problem, although I highly doubt this will work.

Any ideas what to do next? I need reliable internet for podcasts for uni, also for a few assignments which I'm trying to get done. Just loading this forum took long enough.

Download Speed: 5172 kbps (646.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 256 kbps (32 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 311 ms
Jitter: 95 ms
Packet Loss: 21 %

What the speed test says at finish time of writing this. The graph that shows the download speeds is spiking a lot, packet loss is just ridiculous.

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