Telstra OZ CDMA network being decomissioned

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Ultimate Geek

#23429 17-Nov-2005 09:54

Yes it sounds like it is a marketing thing, it may not be quite as simple as the CEO thinks based on experiences elsewhere.

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#23452 17-Nov-2005 17:08

mjsit&t: Yes it sounds like it is a marketing thing, it may not be quite as simple as the CEO thinks based on experiences elsewhere.

I don't think anybody else has ever converted (or thought of converting) an 800 CDMA network to WCDMA. Many US carriers converted old 800 AMPS/DAMPS networks to 850 GSM because there was no available 1900 GSM spectrum (and 900 GSM can't be used in the States). I have no doubts they will pull it off, the only issue would be the total lack of handsets but I suspect that would be something that won't be a problem come launch.

What will be very interesting is to see what happens with Orange in Australia remembering that Orange is owned by Hutchinson (who also own the 3 brand in Australia with Telstra and Telecom NZ). Orange only has limited coverage areas of it's own due to Australia's idea of selling off both regional and nationwide licences for all of it's cellular spectrum. Since their roaming partner network (Telstra CMDA) will be gone it's going to leave them with a network that's pretty much hopeless for anybody who travels outside their home area.

timmyh

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#23691 22-Nov-2005 21:24

freitasm: Telecom New Zealand CDMA EVDO roaming to Australia actually set a new reference and it's actually (according to some sources I could reach) being investigated to be adopted as the standard for data roaming on CDMA EVDO networks. If this happens all is good for high speed cellular data.

If this is true it is certainly an impressive technical achievement by Telecom and Telstra. However it shows how desperately Telecom needed to have data roaming to Australia that they were prepared to define a method on their own. It will still be extremely difficult to get other CDMA operators to play ball unless it is adopted by the CDMA standards bodies. Does CDMA roaming support the managed IP access - Private Office or whatever it's called?

As for "what lower frequencies WCDMA might operate at", Telstra actually said in their press release (posted today here on Geekzone) that it will be 850MHz.

Sure but it is still preferable for there to be some co-ordination on this to allow for wider handset range etc. I am guessing 850MHz is either wishful thinking or they know something more than the rest of us about WCDMA frequency options in the pipeline.

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#23701 23-Nov-2005 06:48

timmyh:

As for "what lower frequencies WCDMA might operate at", Telstra actually said in their press release (posted today here on Geekzone) that it will be 850MHz.

Sure but it is still preferable for there to be some co-ordination on this to allow for wider handset range etc. I am guessing 850MHz is either wishful thinking or they know something more than the rest of us about WCDMA frequency options in the pipeline.

CDMA850 is being rolled out by several of the North American carriers who all moved from AMPS/DAMPS to GSM, hence the creation of the GSM 850 spec. WCDMA 850 is just natural progression from there so those same carriers will likely deploy WCDMA 850 as well. What will be interesting to see is how many carriers elsewhere in the world follow, if you look at several of the Scandinavian operators they are all looking at options to enhance 3G coverage outside the main coverage areas and WCDMA 2100 is simply not an option due to the limited coverage. They have even had trials of CDMA450 over there (the 450Mhz spectrum was used previously for an old analogue mobile band).

NealR

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#23708 23-Nov-2005 10:00

"It will still be extremely difficult to get other CDMA operators to play ball unless it is adopted by the CDMA standards bodies. "

The method for CDMA data roaming that is being used between TelecomNZ and Telstra has been agreed by the CDMA community as the standard for all CDMA data roaming. TelecomNZ continue to be leaders in the CDMA community for the development of standards for data roaming.

"Does CDMA roaming support the managed IP access - Private Office or whatever it's called?"

Yes, any Remote Office customer of Telecom NZ can have access to their One Office network while in Australia using CDMA1x/EVDO. For corporate network security reasons the decision has been made that this is an opt in service, therefore a change request needs to be made to Telecom to activate International Mobile Data roaming for Remote Office.

The comments I write on this forum do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer and as such cannot be taken as official statements of my employer.

frizzo

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Wannabe Geek

#23709 23-Nov-2005 10:05

Surely the point is though that Telstra are getting rid of their CDMA network and you can have all the standards you want but if there is no CDMA network in Aus for Telecom NZ users to roam to there is no data or voice roaming in Aus in 18 months time? Or have I got this wrong?

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#23742 23-Nov-2005 18:16

Assuming the Orange CDMA network still exists it should be possible to roam there still if Telecom can sign a roaming agreement with them however the Orange network coverage is very limited compared to Telstra - Telecom had better get ready to rip down those billboads claiming they have the biggest & best roaming coverage in oz! :-)

The big question could be the future of the Orange CDMA network, since Hutchinson own 100% of the Orange network in Oz and also own the 3 network with Telstra & Telecom NZ there have been some suggestions that their CDMA network might disappear as well and customers moved to the common WCDMA platform due to the limited network coverage Orange would have after the Telstra CDMA network is shut down as they roam on Telstra as well.

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Jama

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#23780 24-Nov-2005 13:02

18 months in the world of technology is a long time. Who knows what multi-network capable devices we will have by then....

frizzo

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#23782 24-Nov-2005 13:13

Yeah we were told by Telecom NZ that there would be a GSM/CDMA handset here in June 05. That never happened....

Jama

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#23784 24-Nov-2005 13:21

Probably a good thing Frizzo - it wasn't the best of phones.

sbiddle

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#23795 24-Nov-2005 16:23

But a dual mode phone still doesn't solve the roaming issue. Telecom will still need to issue SIM cards, sort out call forwarding and that will mean no SMS etc.

em

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#23930 27-Nov-2005 16:13

Products exist that do the network side of CDMA -> GSM roaming - see http://www.telusmobility.com/about/press_room/releases/20051109_world_phone.html -it talks about SMS working.

I think getting hold of a "worldphone" that does 850 WCDMA might be more of the problem...

David Blackman

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Wannabe Geek

#24994 19-Dec-2005 18:08

I understand that WCDMA 850 should have similar range to CDMA x1 because of the band and the code-division protocol, but how will GSM 850 replace CDMA for voice? Doesn't the time-division protocol limit range from the base station to about 35km (where CDMA can reach over 100km) ?

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#25012 20-Dec-2005 09:08

David Blackman: I understand that WCDMA 850 should have similar range to CDMA x1 because of the band and the code-division protocol, but how will GSM 850 replace CDMA for voice? Doesn't the time-division protocol limit range from the base station to about 35km (where CDMA can reach over 100km) ?

Telstra are not rolling out GSM850. They are only deploying WCDMA. From reading a few articles from Australia it appears WCDMA in the 800Mhz band doesn't offer the range of CDMA which seems to be the primary complaint. The only reason Telstra deployed CDMA in the first place was because GSM could not offer the same coverage as AMPS.

johnr

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#25014 20-Dec-2005 09:12

And GSM can also just go twice the distance of 35k (GSM voice only) its used on some NZ sites and is used on the main highways in the out back of OZ.

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