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rayonline

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  #2346729 31-Oct-2019 11:58
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rhy7s: Full frame 35mm digital is more like medium format film which produced pretty clean results. Extreme enlargements from 35mm film would exaggerate details from the substrate. You might want to look at something like Alien Skin to get similar grain effects.

 

 

 

Yep. Thanks.  But in the medium format circle some folks develop their film with Agfa Rodinal :)  But even stuff like Fuji Velvia 50 has grain compared to digital.  




Geektastic
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  #2346997 31-Oct-2019 23:11
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rayonline:

 

nitro:

 

Also, do you know what those photos were taken with? Photos taken with small sensors (most smartphones) won't capture as much detail in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My image haha.  Nikon D600 with a 18-35g lens ISO 100, F8, 1/250.  24mm. 

 

 

 

Geektastic:

 

There are several possibilities.

 

 

 

1) Did the image start as RAW and get processed (eg in Lightroom) before being turned into a JPEG, or was the JPEG out of the camera? I have yet to see an OOC jpeg I liked and would rather manufacturers actually made cameras RAW only myself, freeing up space to hone other camera features and abilities in the firmware

 

2) How good was the print compared to the image? We can't see both to compare, but I guess you can. You need to determine if the print is the problem - try printing it on a paper with more texture

 

3) The camera settings may be adding to it, as may the quality or otherwise of the lens on the front etc etc

 

4) Photo printing is a bit of a dark art, with RAPs and all sorts to take into account as well as the actual device and file prep. I do not own a photo printer, I outsource that to specialists if I need it done. Maybe you can review the printing process.

 

 

 

I'd reprocess the RAW (if there is one) for more punch and contrast then reduce sharpening then ask someone else to print it using a different machine and paper. See what you get and whether you like it better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1.  RAW capture, I use Lightroom exported to JPEG with 85% quality setting. 

 

2.  Similar I guess.  I didn't do excessive post processing since this is digital rather than mould the file. 

 

3.  Settings above. 

 

4.  WPS printing just on the mini lab's luster / matte paper.  

 

 

 

Maybe it is just the way digital is unless one goes away and do more post processing.  I didn't do this after all it is digital and I guess if I wanted more that texture I could just shoot film.  Not just my image alone, it is a kinda look with the other photos as well, maybe it is just the digital photo look?  I don't mind if it is in a magazine or a print held close to me but when it is framed up to me it is more a fine art kinda thing and the grain gives it bit more something ... 

 

 

 

Click to see full size

 

 

 

 

The 85% quality setting won't be doing it any favours. Exhibition prints are usually IME at least printed from 16 bit TIFF files, which are HUGE and provide heaps of information for the printer. The last time I had an exhibition, the files had to be delivered to the printers on a portable HDD because no other method was realistic.






jarledb
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  #2347003 31-Oct-2019 23:29
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Geektastic:

 

The 85% quality setting won't be doing it any favours. Exhibition prints are usually IME at least printed from 16 bit TIFF files, which are HUGE and provide heaps of information for the printer. The last time I had an exhibition, the files had to be delivered to the printers on a portable HDD because no other method was realistic.

 

 

But then you are not exactly on fibre ;)





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Batman
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  #2347023 1-Nov-2019 07:36
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rayonline:

 

This is a 6000x4000 pixel JPEG image ~9MB. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqmnw4ccjkn3u96/image1.jpg?dl=0

 

 

 

 

can i see the raw file?


Geektastic
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  #2347066 1-Nov-2019 09:36
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jarledb:

Geektastic:


The 85% quality setting won't be doing it any favours. Exhibition prints are usually IME at least printed from 16 bit TIFF files, which are HUGE and provide heaps of information for the printer. The last time I had an exhibition, the files had to be delivered to the printers on a portable HDD because no other method was realistic.



But then you are not exactly on fibre ;)



No but even on fibre I imagine 85 4GB image files would take a while to upload. Having never had the opportunity to find out I don't really know!





Fred99
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  #2347109 1-Nov-2019 10:37
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The usual reason why photos for publication are requested as 16 bit uncompressed TIFF etc is that some person in the printing department got a diploma in 1980- something, wrote a policy, and nobody with common sense challenged it.
You really don't need to print with more than 8 bit files. Even the claim that some printers have a wide enough gamut so that in theory there's a visible variation or posterisation possible with one integer (of 256) is pretty spurious, you won't see it with sRGB, you'd need to be shooting in wider gamut, then printing on gloss paper, and be extremely careful that you don't get posterisation when soft-proofing as your computer monitor will have better gamut than the printer. I'm extremely fussy with printing, so actually do print from 16 bit as I'll tweak colour before sending the file to the printer, as only when I've decided which paper to print on is it possible to load the ICC profile for the paper and printer.
If you shoot raw, then the raw files don't have a colourspace. You can select a colourspace later, sRGB, adobeRGB, whatever, makes no difference.
But if you're starting with 8 bit jpeg then you should edit using 16 bit in the editing software (then convert back to 8 bit once you're finished if you want to save on file size). If you extensively post-process, then of course shoot raw.
I sent a batch of photos for selection for publication a while ago via email, resized from over 30 mpix to 1500 x 1000 approx and compressed jpeg, with instructions to let me know which photos they wanted, then I'd send them 16 bit files for final publication in accordance with their policy. Hadn't heard back in a couple of days, so sent a follow up email, they'd already printed thousands of brochures, with a couple of the images A4 size. Bloody morons. But they were happy with image quality - it annoyed me much more than it did them.

nitro
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  #2347148 1-Nov-2019 12:29
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if you feel like playing with it, perhaps do a trial of LR CC and see if the Texture tool can do what you need, or at least help...

 

result on your jpeg by just sliding it (by quite a bit!) to the right is as below:

 

Click to see full size

 

i would expect better results working on a raw file.

 

 


rayonline

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  #2347161 1-Nov-2019 14:03
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Batman:

 

rayonline:

 

This is a 6000x4000 pixel JPEG image ~9MB. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqmnw4ccjkn3u96/image1.jpg?dl=0

 

 

 

 

can i see the raw file?

 

 

 

 

This is the RAW file.  Unedited probably it's via "view" the Windows Folder thru Lightroom.  

 

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjelkx93e2cbakp/2018_11_06_0024.nef?dl=0

 

 


rhy7s
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  #2347238 1-Nov-2019 16:29
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As Fred99 says, 16 bit TIFF is pretty much placebo for most purposes as an output format. For Geektastic's images to end up at 4GB presumably they haven't flattened or used lossless compression? For a single layer uncompressed 16bit TIFF to get to 4GB you'd be looking at 716MP.

Geektastic
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  #2347244 1-Nov-2019 16:42
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rhy7s: As Fred99 says, 16 bit TIFF is pretty much placebo for most purposes as an output format. For Geektastic's images to end up at 4GB presumably they haven't flattened or used lossless compression? For a single layer uncompressed 16bit TIFF to get to 4GB you'd be looking at 716MP.

 

 

 

I give the printer what he asks for.

 

It's easier.

 

The last exhibition I had the prints were A2 on hard boards for outdoor display.






Fred99
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  #2347348 1-Nov-2019 18:25
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Geektastic:

 

I give the printer what he asks for.

 

It's easier.

 

The last exhibition I had the prints were A2 on hard boards for outdoor display.

 

 

Which is why - if you're fussy you find someone to print who actually understands the process, as if they don't get how utterly pointless that is, then they've probably got poor understanding of the entire process.

 

Reminds me of the BS that stock agencies used to put on their list of requirements for submission. Always more megapixels than any less than full frame camera at the time could deliver. So people would upscale to required size, edit the exif - no problem.


Batman
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  #2347415 1-Nov-2019 21:46
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rayonline:

 

Batman:

 

rayonline:

 

This is a 6000x4000 pixel JPEG image ~9MB. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqmnw4ccjkn3u96/image1.jpg?dl=0

 

 

 

 

can i see the raw file?

 

 

 

 

This is the RAW file.  Unedited probably it's via "view" the Windows Folder thru Lightroom.  

 

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjelkx93e2cbakp/2018_11_06_0024.nef?dl=0

 

 

 

 

try this

 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah8vaoH5VDGYxAGVwBujzZtOoIhk?e=JodmBB


rayonline

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  #2350762 9-Nov-2019 16:07
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Batman:

 

rayonline:

 

Batman:

 

rayonline:

 

This is a 6000x4000 pixel JPEG image ~9MB. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqmnw4ccjkn3u96/image1.jpg?dl=0

 

 

 

 

can i see the raw file?

 

 

 

 

This is the RAW file.  Unedited probably it's via "view" the Windows Folder thru Lightroom.  

 

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjelkx93e2cbakp/2018_11_06_0024.nef?dl=0

 

 

 

 

try this

 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah8vaoH5VDGYxAGVwBujzZtOoIhk?e=JodmBB

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that, yep it has a bit more grain to it, a bit more towards the look of colour film.  Maybe it is for me to move with the times.  I was at Te Papa today actually, what I noticed was that the new stuff were clearly digital images, very sharp, very clean.  There were also the older stuff where it was less sharp and grainy.  I have finished my slide film now, and trying out a few rolls of Kodak Portra, some people enjoy the muted look with that.  Haven't done much of it and it will be interesting.  


Batman
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  #2350816 9-Nov-2019 17:00
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I processed it in such a way that brought up more texture, tweaked the orientation of the image to make the broken wall the feature and dulled down the colours of the building on the left to make it non distracting yet keeping the juxtaposition, made the temperature warmer to bring out the colour from the ruins, and added a very very small amount of grain (10) to unfake the whole thing.

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