Leaky home re-clad recommendations & advice

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dclegg

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#168491 16-Mar-2015 11:22

We have a leaky home, and after years of legal action, we are finally at the point where we are ready to repair it.

Has anyone here had any experience with doing this, and may be able to recommend a few Auckland based re-clad specialists that we should be reaching out to for quotes? We have a couple of companies in mind already, based on past dealings and recent re-clads done in our area. But we would welcome discussion about what companies to consider. There are a lot of cowboys out there!

We are also wondering whether we should be going with a one-stop shop, who will take care of drawing up the plans, project management, council consents, and the actual building work. Or conversely, should we be employing someone to oversee the project management for us?

For the former, we'd expect it to be more cost effective, but worry about conflict of interest & accountability. For the latter, we worry about how much extra this will add to the cost of the entire project. If we were to employ a specialist project management firm, what would you consider the current fair going rate to be? In an ideal world, having the impartiality of a third party project manager makes the most sense, but as overall cost is an issue, we need to ensure we have fully considered all our options.

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#1260203 16-Mar-2015 12:58

If the work is serious which sounds like it is choose someone with a project manager, that way if there are issue you have one point on contact and it falls on their shoulders.

dclegg

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#1260206 16-Mar-2015 13:03

BTR: If the work is serious which sounds like it is choose someone with a project manager, that way if there are issue you have one point on contact and it falls on their shoulders.

Regardless of the route we take there will be a project manager. The question is whether this project manager is from an independent company, or from a company that specialises in fixing leaky homes and is therefore responsible for all aspects of project management and implementation.

I am also trying to get a feel for what would be the standard fee for such a project management role.

mattwnz

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#1260213 16-Mar-2015 13:15

It also depends on how you want to approach it. eg Are you changing the cladding type, are you changing how the roof is and removing leaky type components.I am sure that there are companies that deal with the whole process but they will likely be more expensive, and they will say that there are big risks and unknowns for them. At some stage you must have had the house assessed and whether the house is worth fixing or replacing, so you should ask them where you go to from there. The problem is likely to be under the cladding, so a lot of structure may need removing to remove old rotten and mouldy framing. Some of the rebulds I have seen, they tent the entire building, so that is another cost you need to look at, espeically at this time of the year

dclegg

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#1260220 16-Mar-2015 13:23

mattwnz: It also depends on how you want to approach it. eg Are you changing the cladding type, are you changing how the roof is and removing leaky type components.I am sure that there are companies that deal with the whole process but they will likely be more expensive, and they will say that there are big risks and unknowns for them. At some stage you must have had the house assessed and whether the house is worth fixing or replacing, so you should ask them where you go to from there. The problem is likely to be under the cladding, so a lot of structure may need removing to remove old rotten and mouldy framing. Some of the rebulds I have seen, they tent the entire building, so that is another cost you need to look at, espeically at this time of the year

What needs to be done is pretty well defined. As part of the entire WHRS process, we've had the scope of repairs documented and with estimated costs applied. So thats not really the issue here.

I was hoping there may be fellow Geekzoners who may have gone through this themselves and may have companies that they have dealt with that they could recommend.

Tangentially related to that, if anyone has enlisted the help of a third party project management company for large building works, I'd be interested in hearing what the usual rate would be for such services. One company we spoke to has quoted us a percentage based fee, and we're trying to get a feel as to whether it is reasonably indicative of the marketplace.

mattwnz

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#1260249 16-Mar-2015 13:33

dclegg:
mattwnz: It also depends on how you want to approach it. eg Are you changing the cladding type, are you changing how the roof is and removing leaky type components.I am sure that there are companies that deal with the whole process but they will likely be more expensive, and they will say that there are big risks and unknowns for them. At some stage you must have had the house assessed and whether the house is worth fixing or replacing, so you should ask them where you go to from there. The problem is likely to be under the cladding, so a lot of structure may need removing to remove old rotten and mouldy framing. Some of the rebulds I have seen, they tent the entire building, so that is another cost you need to look at, espeically at this time of the year

What needs to be done is pretty well defined. As part of the entire WHRS process, we've had the scope of repairs documented and with estimated costs applied. So thats not really the issue here.

I was hoping there may be fellow Geekzoners who may have gone through this themselves and may have companies that they have dealt with that they could recommend.

Tangentially related to that, if anyone has enlisted the help of a third party project management company for large building works, I'd be interested in hearing what the usual rate would be for such services. One company we spoke to has quoted us a percentage based fee, and we're trying to get a feel as to whether it is reasonably indicative of the marketplace.

Yes but they should have given you options, eg whether you use the same cladding, or a range of alternative options. You want to solve the cause of the problem, so you probably don't want to use the same cladding type. Also if the design of the overall building is flawed, and is high risk, you will need a draughtman or architect to draw up plans for council, apply for consent and do a risk matrix for the new design. A company that specialises in the new cladding type will be a starting point. Most building company can probably do the work, but many may not want to touch it due to the unknowns, and associations with the leaking building. Every situation is different, so what worked for some, may not apply to others. I am guessing that building companies were used to get the costings, and they did look at your house to do it, so those companies who did those costings may also be a starting point to do the work. Otherwise you could get other companies quoting figures that are a lot higher.

dclegg

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#1260285 16-Mar-2015 14:15

mattwnz:
Yes but they should have given you options, eg whether you use the same cladding, or a range of alternative options. You want to solve the cause of the problem, so you probably don't want to use the same cladding type. Also if the design of the overall building is flawed, and is high risk, you will need a draughtman or architect to draw up plans for council, apply for consent and do a risk matrix for the new design. A company that specialises in the new cladding type will be a starting point. Most building company can probably do the work, but many may not want to touch it due to the unknowns, and associations with the leaking building. Every situation is different, so what worked for some, may not apply to others. I am guessing that building companies were used to get the costings, and they did look at your house to do it, so those companies who did those costings may also be a starting point to do the work. Otherwise you could get other companies quoting figures that are a lot higher.

We are aware of all of this, and it is not really related to the question that I am asking.

Where we are currently at is deciding whether we should be using a company that specialises in the full re-clad process for leaky homes, including preparation of plans, submission to Council, project management, and actual construction. A one-stop leaky home shop, if you will.

Or whether we should be using a company that specialises in managing the re-clad of leaky homes. They would prepare the plans, handle the council stuff, be responsible for managing it all through to completion, but would put the construction portion out to tender.

I guess I was hoping that others here may have travelled this road already, and may have some other companies we could be considering. It's well and good hearing someone give you the sales pitch as to why their company is the best placed to address our need, but its so much better to have feedback from clients that may have used their services already.

mattwnz

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#1260291 16-Mar-2015 14:24

dclegg:
mattwnz:
Yes but they should have given you options, eg whether you use the same cladding, or a range of alternative options. You want to solve the cause of the problem, so you probably don't want to use the same cladding type. Also if the design of the overall building is flawed, and is high risk, you will need a draughtman or architect to draw up plans for council, apply for consent and do a risk matrix for the new design. A company that specialises in the new cladding type will be a starting point. Most building company can probably do the work, but many may not want to touch it due to the unknowns, and associations with the leaking building. Every situation is different, so what worked for some, may not apply to others. I am guessing that building companies were used to get the costings, and they did look at your house to do it, so those companies who did those costings may also be a starting point to do the work. Otherwise you could get other companies quoting figures that are a lot higher.

We are aware of all of this, and it is not really related to the question that I am asking.

Where we are currently at is deciding whether we should be using a company that specialises in the full re-clad process for leaky homes, including preparation of plans, submission to Council, project management, and actual construction. A one-stop leaky home shop, if you will.

Or whether we should be using a company that specialises in managing the re-clad of leaky homes. They would prepare the plans, handle the council stuff, be responsible for managing it all through to completion, but would put the construction portion out to tender.

I guess I was hoping that others here may have travelled this road already, and may have some other companies we could be considering. It's well and good hearing someone give you the sales pitch as to why their company is the best placed to address our need, but its so much better to have feedback from clients that may have used their services already.

People don't tend to talk about leaky buildings publicly so will doubt you get many people speaking about it and their experiences. It is not like building a new home. But you have kind of answered your own question, if you want a company to manage it all for you and you want the easiest solution on paper. But it may cost more, so it sounds like you are trying to save money?The fact is that differnet companies may have different solutions, and different recommendations, and some won;t use certain cladding types in repair, hence my questions about what the cladding type is. So the best solution maybe contact these companies, and go and see previous jobs, before and after photos, and ask the owners. But as I said, people don't want to really talk about this problem. It is a bit like the finance company failures, it is part of NZs dark history.

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dclegg

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#1260302 16-Mar-2015 14:44

mattwnz:
People don't tend to talk about leaky buildings publicly so will doubt you get many people speaking about it and their experiences. It is not like building a new home.

Sure, but that makes more sense with regards to any legal portion of the whole leaky home journey. Any feedback or advice with regards to the actual work done to fix a leaky home should be more easily discussed. I know I'd certainly be keen to share any advice I can with others in this situation.

But you have kind of answered your own question, if you want a company to manage it all for you and you want the easiest solution on paper. But it may cost more, so it sounds like you are trying to save money?

Partly, yes. Money is definitely a factor, as we don't have an infinite budget. But it is also important that the work is done correctly and to a high standard.

So the best solution maybe contact these companies, and go and see previous jobs, before and after photos, and ask the owners. But as I said, people don't want to really talk about this problem.

It was the "ask the owners" part of the equation I thought I may be able to get some input into here. I'd also like to beef up the shortlist of companies to contact, and while Google can be used for this to a point, it doesn't beat good old fashioned word of mouth.

timmmay

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#1260307 16-Mar-2015 14:52

In general I prefer to use one company for all of a job where possible. That way if something goes wrong there's less finger pointing "it's not our problem it's that company". In this case I would expect that one company to provide a project manager.

We had a bathroom done by a firm who it turned out used a bunch of subcontrators, as well as their own staff. If anything goes wrong we only have to talk to one person/company, they take care of everything. With a bigger job like fixing a home that's not watertight I really wouldn't want to have to deal with multiple companies.

dclegg

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#1260312 16-Mar-2015 14:59

timmmay: In general I prefer to use one company for all of a job where possible. That way if something goes wrong there's less finger pointing "it's not our problem it's that company". In this case I would expect that one company to provide a project manager.

We had a bathroom done by a firm who it turned out used a bunch of subcontrators, as well as their own staff. If anything goes wrong we only have to talk to one person/company, they take care of everything. With a bigger job like fixing a home that's not watertight I really wouldn't want to have to deal with multiple companies.

That was our initial thought too. But somebody raised the possibility to us that this could cause a conflict of interest, especially if any problems arise during the construction work. It is my understanding that we would still only have one point of contact (the project management firm), and they'd be responsible for ensuring the construction work is done in a timely and acceptable manner.

1eStar

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#1260342 16-Mar-2015 15:25

I would tend to engage an Architect who is competant in this type of work. Read this linked pdf: Guide to Architect's Services - New Zealand Institute of Architects [url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=Wj0GVaCzAaSumAXj8IGgCQ&url=http://www.nzia.co.nz/e-shop/download-pdf.aspx%3Fid%3D3392cd4f-437a-4bcd-9e45-f7b4c90d8943&ved=0CCQQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNF7h3lziGJ3CJ7HtViVNoV1F7pg4Q&sig2=oRT4bBir0sy0GiSHFNexyQ[/url]

Posted from mobile so link wont work unless someone quotes me

richms

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#1260353 16-Mar-2015 15:38

Getting a company who can do it all increases your chance of getting tradespeople. There is a massive shortage of them at the moment with the recovery from the recession, and all the labour going to chch to work for other people.

In some ways I think it would be easier if there was another recession so that you could find people.

Richard rich.ms

dclegg

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#1260357 16-Mar-2015 15:42

1eStar: I would tend to engage an Architect who is competant in this type of work. Read this linked pdf: Guide to Architect's Services - New Zealand Institute of Architects https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=Wj0GVaCzAaSumAXj8IGgCQ&url=http://www.nzia.co.nz/e-shop/download-pdf.aspx%3Fid%3D3392cd4f-437a-4bcd-9e45-f7b4c90d8943&ved=0CCQQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNF7h3lziGJ3CJ7HtViVNoV1F7pg4Q&sig2=oRT4bBir0sy0GiSHFNexyQ

Posted from mobile so link wont work unless someone quotes me

All the firms we're looking to engage are specialists in this area. But there are firms that specialise in undertaking all the work, and those that specialise in designing and managing the work, but tendering the actual construction process out. In either case, Architects with experience in drawing up plans to fix leaky homes would be performing that portion.

1eStar

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#1260375 16-Mar-2015 16:00

Sorry my mistake. I linked the wrong pdf. [url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=Wj0GVaCzAaSumAXj8IGgCQ&url=http://www.branz.co.nz/cms_show_download.php%3Fid%3Dc59075521d0b3336d517cf74f4ee5a64c9ddec66&ved=0CCYQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNGwtCebQoZ6vJpQ5stjV1vqFrgfew&sig2=3lDr6TxW3F402wIVpNAeew[/url]

I mean engaging an Architect as the project manager of the contract.

My father who is a civil engineer recently engaged the services of an Architect when he renovated. Could have done it himself, but it puts a level of responsibility into the mix.

timmmay

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#1260721 17-Mar-2015 07:27

dclegg:
timmmay: In general I prefer to use one company for all of a job where possible. That way if something goes wrong there's less finger pointing "it's not our problem it's that company". In this case I would expect that one company to provide a project manager.

We had a bathroom done by a firm who it turned out used a bunch of subcontrators, as well as their own staff. If anything goes wrong we only have to talk to one person/company, they take care of everything. With a bigger job like fixing a home that's not watertight I really wouldn't want to have to deal with multiple companies.

That was our initial thought too. But somebody raised the possibility to us that this could cause a conflict of interest, especially if any problems arise during the construction work. It is my understanding that we would still only have one point of contact (the project management firm), and they'd be responsible for ensuring the construction work is done in a timely and acceptable manner.

What kind of conflict of interest? I'd want concrete examples and to weigh up the options before I let that add complexity to an already complex project.

You have to keep an eye on any work. If you use one firm they give a warranty and manage everything. If you use a separate project manager if anything goes wrong you'll have to pay them to work out who caused the problem, or work it out yourself and be subject to the blame game.

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