Unethical local investors the real cause of AKL (and now NZ-wide) house price boom?

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Batman

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#214327 7-May-2017 10:05

Saw this in the herald.

Let's presume he (note: a local, not a foreigner) represents most of the so called "property investors" in NZ.

This is what they have been doing all this time?

Let the debates begin!

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#1777062 7-May-2017 10:10

If people like him going around with lowball offers are driving the market, then we wouldn't expect a price boom as they're effectively driving down prices

Linux

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#1777063 7-May-2017 10:12

I hope the comcom lock him up!

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chevrolux

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#1777065 7-May-2017 10:16

Yea don't get what the fuss is about. It's business. And business is about opportunity.
I think it's just the fact he LOOKS foreign. Classic racist NZ jumps on that band wagon and calls it dirty tactics.

I for one bought my first house at 20 years old from divorcees - $30k under RV. Opportunity is a good thing, without their bad situation I couldn't have afforded a nice place like I got.

frankv

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#1777070 7-May-2017 10:24

chevrolux: Yea don't get what the fuss is about. It's business. And business is about opportunity.

What the fuss is about is that it's unethical and probably illegal.

the video's content appeared to be in breach of the Fair Trading Act in terms of misleading or deceptive behaviour and false representations to consumers.

Business and opportunity is fine, but setting out to deliberately screw someone over is despicable. I'd be grateful if you would share your real name so that I can avoid ever having to do business with you.

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#1777085 7-May-2017 10:50

frankv:

chevrolux: Yea don't get what the fuss is about. It's business. And business is about opportunity.

What the fuss is about is that it's unethical and probably illegal.

the video's content appeared to be in breach of the Fair Trading Act in terms of misleading or deceptive behaviour and false representations to consumers.

Business and opportunity is fine, but setting out to deliberately screw someone over is despicable. I'd be grateful if you would share your real name so that I can avoid ever having to do business with you.

It's certainly unethical, but I very much doubt it's illegal. He's not misleading or deceiving them - he's trying to get the property below what he considers it to be worth.

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#1777086 7-May-2017 10:50

nickb800: If people like him going around with lowball offers are driving the market, then we wouldn't expect a price boom as they're effectively driving down prices

Gosh I do have problems with math you know!

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#1777088 7-May-2017 10:51

cadman:

It's certainly unethical, but I very much doubt it's illegal. He's not misleading or deceiving them - he's trying to get the property below what he considers it to be worth.

That's exactly my sentiments.

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Dunnersfella

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#1777095 7-May-2017 11:06

In on-going business relationships, ethical and respectable business practices ensure long term, beneficial business is done between both parties.

Residential (ma & pa) real estate is seldom an 'on-going' relationship in the same way.

It's a buy once - for as little as possible, sell once - for as much as possible.

To think otherwise is to go in with blinkers on...

A: Buying a house to live in is fine, pay what you can afford for what you want.

B: Buying a house to make money from is fine, pay as little as you can to ensure a maximised profit.

Putting videos on-line that call sellers 'dummies' and tell people to target divorced couples etc is neither of these things - it's foolhardy to promote, even if you believe it is the best way to ensure success with (B).

Poor marketing creates issues, and that's what this bloke is facing.

P.S. I've bought property, but it was off plans and at list price... something (B) would most likely never do. I've never sold property. But when I do, I'm sure that I'll need top dollar to move onto my next stage in my life. Just saying.

ubergeeknz

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#1777132 7-May-2017 12:20

He evidently puts forward tactics such as making low bids under *false names* to reinforce the idea that the property is worth less. That is fraud. Targeting mortgagee, divorce, deceased estates etc is just smart business IMO

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#1777138 7-May-2017 12:59

ubergeeknz:

He evidently puts forward tactics such as making low bids under *false names* to reinforce the idea that the property is worth less. That is fraud. Targeting mortgagee, divorce, deceased estates etc is just smart business IMO

Unethical yes, lying yes, but IANAL -is it really fraud?

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#1777141 7-May-2017 13:12

joker97:

ubergeeknz:

He evidently puts forward tactics such as making low bids under *false names* to reinforce the idea that the property is worth less. That is fraud. Targeting mortgagee, divorce, deceased estates etc is just smart business IMO

Unethical yes, lying yes, but IANAL -is it really fraud?

I'd say it's no more fraud than say pretending you don't have the financial means to meet the seller's price expectations when you in fact do but you simply don't wish to.

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#1777150 7-May-2017 13:46

I haven't bothered to read the article or video, as I am so over all these property stories that the MSM are pumping out. If it isn't property, it is earthquakes, and how Wellington is going to get hit with a big one eventually that will mean that it will no longer be the capital. Etc

However people will usually word it say something like they have a top budget etc. most people will be borrowing anyway from that bank and have a top amount they can borrow. The seller can always ask to look at the documentation if they don't believe them.

This whole property market bubble sickens me somewhat, becuase it shows the nasty side of humans, and greed. It is also likely to end in tears for many. Unfortunately the way our system is currently set, it is often savers who end up being hit worst when a bank fails etc.

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#1777169 7-May-2017 14:58

The "Seven D's" tactic is not new, and it certainly wasn't invented by Ron Hoy Fong. I read about this particular investing strategy in a book published by Brad Sugars at least 15 years ago, and have seen it recycled and regurgitated by several "entrepreneurs" since, none of whom seem to have an original thought between them. David Hows and Phil Jones also published an audio book with the Seven D's method contained in it, and this was distributed as a free gift with an issue of Kiwi Property Investor magazine some years ago. I still have my copy.

I have been to several property investment seminars over the years, both in NZ and Australia, where participants are encouraged to "monetise" their accrued property investment knowledge by writing a book or going on the speaking circuit - essentially just reusing other people's words and advice for profit - exactly what Ron Hoy Fong appears to have done in this case. He's not an entrepreneur, he's just a copycat who's read all the books, been to all the seminars, has built up some wealth in property using the tried & true methods, and is now following the advice to pass his second-hand knowledge on for profit, whilst advertising and flogging his own mentoring business in the process.

There is nothing new here, however it's interesting that the APIA is bearing the brunt of the backlash here. When the same content and advice was published by Kiwi Property Investor magazine in the early 2000's, nobody batted an eyelid....

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#1777171 7-May-2017 15:01

I think the world has changed a lot since the early 2000's.. I think also due to this housing crisis and property bubble, people are taking a lot more notice of professionals.

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#1777175 7-May-2017 15:03

Wheelbarrow01:

The "Seven D's" tactic is not new, and it certainly wasn't invented by Ron Hoy Fong. I read about this particular investing strategy in a book published by Brad Sugars at least 15 years ago, and have seen it recycled and regurgitated by several "entrepreneurs" since, none of whom seem to have an original thought between them. David Hows and Phil Jones also published an audio book with the Seven D's method contained in it, and this was distributed as a free gift with an issue of Kiwi Property Investor magazine some years ago. I still have my copy.

I have been to several property investment seminars over the years, both in NZ and Australia, where participants are encouraged to "monetise" their accrued property investment knowledge by writing a book or going on the speaking circuit - essentially just reusing other people's words and advice for profit - exactly what Ron Hoy Fong appears to have done in this case. He's not an entrepreneur, he's just a copycat who's read all the books, been to all the seminars, has built up some wealth in property using the tried & true methods, and is now following the advice to pass his second-hand knowledge on for profit, whilst advertising and flogging his own mentoring business in the process.

There is nothing new here, however it's interesting that the APIA is bearing the brunt of the backlash here. When the same content and advice was published by Kiwi Property Investor magazine in the early 2000's, nobody batted an eyelid....

Good one, thanks.

Essentially, posting this to maybe show a different side, that it's not foreigners that caused the issue, but the locals, don't blame foreigners too much.

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