South Australia turns off roof top Solar to manage grid

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Quinny

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#283881 17-Mar-2021 13:04

Super interesting article. Luckily in NZ the grid managed plans are not the norm.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/switching-off-rooftop-solar-will-become-a-regular-feature-of-a-renewables-grid/

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#2676073 17-Mar-2021 13:07

If we ever had such large solar power generation perhaps the should be though?

robcreid

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#2676078 17-Mar-2021 13:26

Interesting article.

Does not really cover what happens to billing in this scenario.

If the market prices went negative I assume that means the household that get their solar switched off would get paid for any grid power they used?

pom532

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#2676079 17-Mar-2021 13:28

robcreid:

Interesting article.

Does not really cover what happens to billing in this scenario.

If the market prices went negative I assume that means the household that get their solar switched off would get paid for any grid power they used?

The comments on the article seem to indicate that those with switched off systems had to pay the standard tariff for the power their houses used.

Quinny

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#2676080 17-Mar-2021 13:29

No, I don't think they do. The VPP plans are very weird. I'm in the NZ Aussie Powerwall group and they showed their power coming from grid and Powerwall with solar off. They are meant to be cheaper than how we do in NZ but all I see is moans about it costing more. They do get very very cheap Powerwalls tho. Like 1/4 to 1/3rd NZ NZ price.

frankv

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#2676097 17-Mar-2021 13:58

AEMO says the ability to curtail a range of large and residential solar customers, including those through the South Australian government’s ‘Smarter Homes’ initiatives, is vital to support the transition into a modern renewable power system.

Seems to me that this allowed them to continue to use an out-of-date power system with a deplorable lack of redundancy instead of transitioning to a modern system. The more control they have of consumers' solar systems, the less pressure there will be on them to install that second cross-border line. And when (I assume) NSW & Victoria get more solar installed, there won't be that guaranteed demand from there either.

I wonder what the effect on demand would have been of announcing free electricity for Sunday afternoon? I also wonder whether flipping your mains switch off would allow you to switch back to using your solar for your home?

PolicyGuy

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#2676109 17-Mar-2021 14:28

frankv:

AEMO says the ability to curtail a range of large and residential solar customers, including those through the South Australian government’s ‘Smarter Homes’ initiatives, is vital to support the transition into a modern renewable power system.

Seems to me that this allowed them to continue to use an out-of-date power system with a deplorable lack of redundancy instead of transitioning to a modern system. The more control they have of consumers' solar systems, the less pressure there will be on them to install that second cross-border line. And when (I assume) NSW & Victoria get more solar installed, there won't be that guaranteed demand from there either.

I wonder what the effect on demand would have been of announcing free electricity for Sunday afternoon? I also wonder whether flipping your mains switch off would allow you to switch back to using your solar for your home?

This

The Australian grid has been completely stuffed up by lack of forward planning, absence of coordination, petty interstate squabbles and privatisation of different bits to different investors.

It even got to the absurd state of one authority giving permission for a commercial renewable generation plant to be constructed and commissioned, then another saying after construction was completed that it couldn't be connected at full noise because there was insufficient grid capacity

It's just mind-blowing how bad their situation is, and it's only getting worse as dirty old coal plants are decommissioned but of course the 'replacement' renewable generation is somewhere else

raytaylor

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#2677901 21-Mar-2021 12:21

Some interesting topics covered in that article....

- Power prices went negative. For a spot price customer thats quite good. An alert via the power retailer's app saying you can get paid to plug in your car and charge it up would create a bunch of demand.

- I understand with a bunch of coal and gas based generators on the network they cant shut them down easily, so it makes sense to cut the solar, though that is an unfortunate environmental situation. Instead they should be looking at pumped hydro to store that excess energy and create demand while they wait for the coal plants to be decommissioned. That would also be helpful long term.

- A quick google of ride through seems to imply that the inverter just stops exporting to the grid, but still allows importing. So the home could still in theory run on the rooftop solar, and wont be affected by high grid prices if they can capture enough energy to run the house from the rooftop. Someone correct me if I am wrong please.

- This I see is just another argument that you shouldn't be installing solar if you think you will earn money from the grid export. It should be an environmental (not easy to justify in NZ) or cost savings decision only.

Ray Taylor

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sbiddle

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#2677924 21-Mar-2021 14:54

The simple reality is electricity grids rely on a concept that's basically 100 years old for management. Once electricity is generated it has to go somewhere, whether that be used by a customer, or "lost" via transmission loss.

We're a long way away from having smart electricity networks that can cope with large numbers of ingress points on the network, and more importantly face the issue that people seem to love the concept of selling their excess electricity to retail providers, but don't seem to be too keen on paying the costs to build a modern electricity grid that can actually fully support this.

hsvhel

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#2678046 21-Mar-2021 19:16

why install a system without storage capacity for self generated storage?

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sbiddle

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#2678075 21-Mar-2021 20:37

hsvhel:

why install a system without storage capacity for self generated storage?

Most people have never installed any form of storage because they don't want to spend $15k + on batteries.

Handle9

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#2678095 21-Mar-2021 22:38

hsvhel:

why install a system without storage capacity for self generated storage?

The ROI is very poor.

sbiddle

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#2678126 22-Mar-2021 07:33

Handle9:

hsvhel:

why install a system without storage capacity for self generated storage?

The ROI is very poor.

Yip. I know two people who have gone down the path in the past year. Neither have done it for the ROI - they have done it simply because they love the technology and had the money.

For a full solar + battery storage system right now you're easily looking at somewhere around a 30 year minimum ROI if you're somewhere in NZ that gets lots of sun. That sort of ROI simply doesn't stack up from a financial perspective, especially with the way technology is advancing and the reality we should hopefully see far superior battery technology within the next 10-15 years (not to mention your current lithium storage cells probably aren't going to last any more than 15 years anyway).

If you want to be off grid or can afford it then the technology is great, but you buy into the current systems because you believe in the technology and the wow factor. You don't do it because it'll save you money in the long term!

timmmay

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#2678132 22-Mar-2021 08:06

Does the 30 year ROI take into account replacing the batteries regularly? How long does that type of battery last anyway? A quick Google suggests 500 cycles to 20% or 5-6 years.

sbiddle

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#2678148 22-Mar-2021 08:14

timmmay:

Does the 30 year ROI take into account replacing the batteries regularly? How long does that type of battery last anyway? A quick Google suggests 500 cycles to 20% or 5-6 years.

No, the 30 years was just purely $ savings.. So the ROI would probably never actually happen hence my comment about only doing this if you have the $$

Tesla warranty the Powerwall for 10 years, and quote 70% capacity at the 10yr period.

Quinny

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#2678258 22-Mar-2021 10:42

I see people quoting a 30 year ROI and it makes me laugh. I spent $36k and don't regret it one bit. My property value was increased by QV close to this. My sale options are improved as I can show almost non-existent power bills for a large family home for 10 months of the year. My personal return on investment started the day after install as I was glued to the Tesla app. Almost 12 months later I am still glued to it. I will have paid off around half of the money in 5 years based on power savings and utilising Westpac's 10k at zero %. Yes solar stacks well and battery-less well, I agree. Why do people put in swimming pools, buy a car, go on a holiday? The ROI on any of these is horrid as well if u just look at numbers. ROI is more than that. My ROI has been excellent.

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