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rhy7s

623 posts

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#315507 22-Jul-2024 10:43
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We've been looking into solar options and just wanted to bounce some things around if anyone else with experience has any insights to offer.

 

The only one to do an onsite consultation so far is Harrison's (we've also had email and video conversations with others, or been pointed to standard package offerings). I'm not a fan of the combination bait-and-switch/upsell technique of giving the impression that their package pricing uses Aiko panels (see attached image) but is actually based on JA Solar panels with a $115 per panel premium to upgrade to Aiko. Anyway, the advantages are the partial shade performance of the Aiko panels allowing a couple more panels and they are 455W units vs 420W, and the aesthetics are nice. Considering ROI, I can't justify batteries, so the PV point feature of the Fronius is a bonus as when power goes out here it can be a few days (Gabrielle was 9 days and we've had a few in the 3 days to a week range). I appreciate the name recognition of Fronius and that they've stood by their warranties with previous iterations of their hardware. I see the active cooling as both an advantage and disadvantage, lower temps are great but with long experience of fans, I don't particularly trust noise perfomance or reliability of a fan over such a long period, especially outdoors. We live in a very quiet rural area and the fan noise examples I've come across don't inspire confidence in adding such a persistent intrusion on the audioscape.

 

 

Another seller's offering depending on the number of panels would come in $2-3k cheaper and would use a GoodWe MS inverter, which despite the Chinese manufacturer flame wars, seems to be pretty decent and has 3 MPPTs which would be a good fit for our three roofs. Here there is the advantage and disadvantage of passive cooling, not having a mechanical failure point and low noise but whether it would halve the expected lifetime - anecdotal projections of Fronius units going over 20 years vs living on borrowed time after the 10 year parts warranty with passive units.

 

There are similarly priced offerings from others that use GoodWe DNS inverters, but seem to be pushing overpanelling beyond what seems sensible for a passive unit, and only two MPPTs. More expensive options with higher end panels and microinverters give some peace of mind in terms of longer warranties but the ROI is marginal.


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billgates
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  #3262671 22-Jul-2024 10:52
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  1. Are you 3 phase power as Fronius 8kW Gen 24 is only available in 3phase configuration? 
  2. Where abouts are you located in NZ? City/Region?




Do whatever you want to do man.

  



rhy7s

623 posts

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  #3262683 22-Jul-2024 11:09
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Interesting, the Fronius is desribed as single phase here: https://solaroutlet.com.au/products/solar-inverter-fronius-gen24-primo-8-kw-1-phase-2-mppt-primo-gen24-8-0 - could you elaborate?

 

We're on 2-phase to the property meter but the buildings we could put solar on are on just one of the phases, we can probably put about three quarters of our usage on that phase though.

 

We're in rural Northland, multiple dwellings all working from home or retired, so our daytime use is pretty solid, about 2000kWh in summer up to about 3000kWh per month in winter.


Scott3
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  #3262693 22-Jul-2024 11:41
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billgates:

 

     

  1. Are you 3 phase power as Fronius 8kW Gen 24 is only available in 3phase configuration? 
  2. Where abouts are you located in NZ? City/Region?

 



Aust source, but it seems to be available as single phase:


https://www.tradezone.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=Fronius+8+kW

 

 




billgates
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  #3262704 22-Jul-2024 12:03
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rhy7s:

 

Interesting, the Fronius is desribed as single phase here: https://solaroutlet.com.au/products/solar-inverter-fronius-gen24-primo-8-kw-1-phase-2-mppt-primo-gen24-8-0 - could you elaborate?

 

We're on 2-phase to the property meter but the buildings we could put solar on are on just one of the phases, we can probably put about three quarters of our usage on that phase though.

 

We're in rural Northland, multiple dwellings all working from home or retired, so our daytime use is pretty solid, about 2000kWh in summer up to about 3000kWh per month in winter.

 

 

I stand corrected. Fronius did not have a single phase 8KW Gen 24 series inverter last time I checked so this is awesome to see. The fans on there new Gen 24 are big and are very quiet from online review and videos you can see. They are quality made in Austria. I like to recommend at the very least Sungrow as Chinese inverter brand due to there good support in NZ. I have heard mixed reviews with GoodWe support from manufacturer in NZ and Australia. 

 

The price looks to be ok for a 8kW system. JA Solar is a tier 1 panel manufacturer and perform well. I would still try and get multiple quotes where they visit your property. I would recommend paying little extra for the Gen24 firmware update so it makes it Gen 24+ which means even without a battery for now, while the sun is shining etc, the Fronius can provide up to 3kW of backup power via dedicated power outlets which can run off your fridge, tv, model etc. IIRC the paid firmware costs around $900.





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

wongtop
563 posts

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  #3262831 22-Jul-2024 13:25
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I haven't heard of Aiko and they don't appear on here,  https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/best-solar-panels-2024/ ,so personally I wouldn't be paying a premium for them.

 

I think you should "overpanel" by 1.2-1.4 times (i.e. for an 8 kW inverter you should be installing something like 10-11 kW of panels).  I've got just under 7 kW of Jinko panels on my 5 kW Sungrow inverter in the Tauranga area. Hasn't hit 5 kW for a couple of months.

 

A few days ago in good sun;

 

 

 

 


rhy7s

623 posts

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  #3262888 22-Jul-2024 13:49
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Aiko certainly ship a fair bit https://www.infolink-group.com/energy-article/solar-topic-cell-shipment-ranking-2023-shipments-increase-56-year-on-year and are efficient within the fairly small range of the competiton https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/best-solar-panels-2024/

 

But yes, I wonder about the premium, in the Australian context, the JA Solar and Aiko panels seem to be about the same indicative price at retail, e.g.

 

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/panels/ja-solar-review.html

 

 

https://www.evchargingaus.com/product/aiko-neostar-2s-n-type-abc-455w-all-black-front-30mm-1500v-evo2-1-2m-lead-25-year-product-warranty-aiko-a455-mah54mb/

 


  #3262914 22-Jul-2024 15:28
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billgates:

 

     

  1. Are you 3 phase power as Fronius 8kW Gen 24 is only available in 3phase configuration?

 

 

no its not. they have different ranges in the Gen24 as they did in the non Gen24 stuff, Primo for single phase up to 10kW and Symo for three-phase up to 12kW. The difference with the gen24 is they can be firmware updated to be a hybrid inverter.

 

Im looking at a Gen24 Primo 8kW single phase in my garage right now.

 

billgates:

 

I would recommend paying little extra for the Gen24 firmware update so it makes it Gen 24+ which means even without a battery for now, while the sun is shining etc, the Fronius can provide up to 3kW of backup power via dedicated power outlets which can run off your fridge, tv, model etc. IIRC the paid firmware costs around $900.

 

 

Again also not correct, you dont need to pay the extra for the firmware update to be able to use it as a "backup" power socket, you pay for the PV point, which is different, and about $600 or so, which is for the Power point, wiring and breakers to connect it up.

 

 

 

Paying for the "+" gives you off grid battery capability through a firmware update.


  #3262933 22-Jul-2024 15:45
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The fan on my fronius is only on when its generating about 4kW, and its not very loud.

 

 

 

I have an 8kW inverter and have 10.1kW of panels over 2 strings, east and west. The export limit is 5kW where we are. I got Harrisons top-tier panels as they did a free upgrade from their mid-tier ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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