Another home cabling topic

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Jaxson

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#634796 2-Jun-2012 20:30

It's quite a touchy subject with the sparkies as traditionally that has all been left to them. I agree though that many (benefit of the doubt here) are not up to speed with modern issues of data/phone/tv signal distribution and technology.

sbiddle

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#634797 2-Jun-2012 20:35

Jaxson: It's quite a touchy subject with the sparkies as traditionally that has all been left to them. I agree though that many (benefit of the doubt here) are not up to speed with modern issues of data/phone/tv signal distribution and technology.

The biggest problem is many simply don't want to learn. There are many mandatory courses you have to attend to maintain your electrical ticket, but I know Chorus have had a hard job trying to convince people that they're doing things wrong. Telecom first starting telling people that they should stop using looped wiring in 1998, 14 years later it's still the norm in the industry.

gregmcc

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#634816 2-Jun-2012 21:17

sbiddle: I

The TCF guidelines very clearly say in many places that their guidelines are minimum spec.

They are a guideline only, not a requirment

The problem is the vast majority of people don't really have a clue. I was installing a master filter at a house recently probably close to a $1 million last week and underdoing a complete refit. The sparky there
was simply rewiring the phone in series with somewhere in the vicinity of 7 jackpoints. He was also using RG59 for the TV. He quite clearly knew nothing about TV or data despite thinking he was an expert.

This is the problem, the standard "domestic sparky" really doesn't have a clue, anything more than a 2 way light switch is beyond them, let along data/comms/tv!

illicit

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#634920 3-Jun-2012 10:08

sbiddle:

The problem is the vast majority of people don't really have a clue. I was installing a master filter at a house recently probably close to a $1 million last week and underdoing a complete refit. The sparky there
was simply rewiring the phone in series with somewhere in the vicinity of 7 jackpoints. He was also using RG59 for the TV. He quite clearly knew nothing about TV or data despite thinking he was an expert.

Did you do anything about it?

Skolink

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#635196 3-Jun-2012 20:28

illicit:
sbiddle:

The problem is the vast majority of people don't really have a clue. I was installing a master filter at a house recently probably close to a $1 million last week and underdoing a complete refit. The sparky there
was simply rewiring the phone in series with somewhere in the vicinity of 7 jackpoints. He was also using RG59 for the TV. He quite clearly knew nothing about TV or data despite thinking he was an expert.

Did you do anything about it?

I was also curious as to why you were installing the splitter when the sparky was installing all the rest of the phone wiring.

Jaxson

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#635218 3-Jun-2012 21:04

Probably there from a data/computer point of view and trying to optimise that side of things?

sbiddle

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#635221 3-Jun-2012 21:11

Skolink:
illicit:
sbiddle:

The problem is the vast majority of people don't really have a clue. I was installing a master filter at a house recently probably close to a $1 million last week and underdoing a complete refit. The sparky there
was simply rewiring the phone in series with somewhere in the vicinity of 7 jackpoints. He was also using RG59 for the TV. He quite clearly knew nothing about TV or data despite thinking he was an expert.

Did you do anything about it?

I was also curious as to why you were installing the splitter when the sparky was installing all the rest of the phone wiring.

I was merely doing a VDSL2 install.

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illicit

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#636372 5-Jun-2012 21:48

illicit:
Did you do anything about it?

If not, may I ask why?

I tell someone when I see it being done wrong - what good will come from everyone keeping quiet?

webwat

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#636695 6-Jun-2012 14:33

nickb800:
chevrolux:
illicit: http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/02b3940f-1b3b-4cc8-bfc6-28173756da29.html

I like the TCF's guidlines on how to set up a cabinet and all that but the cabling amounts are just retarded. You can't just say to people run 2xcat6 and 2xrg6 to every outlet. Like in their diagram in the office they show there will be a modem, phone, printer and computer. 2xcat6 is not enough! You need 4 network cables. And in the kitchen there is just one phone yet they say run 4 cables to it. WTF?! And don't even get me started on lounge. I think they have that back to front. I would put 2xRG6 and 4xCat6 because you are going to use HDMI most of the time and not RF modulators. Run cables for what you need and then add one extra for future. Don't just cable it to what the TCF say.

+1

I can see what they are trying to achieve in general with that document, but cant help but wonder that if they lowered things down a notch then it might get more widespread adoption by non-geeks/electricians than its current form which is likely to end up in the too hard basket for many. But I digress.

Yeah the suggested minimums seem more for developers that have no idea how the end user is likely to use spaces and what equipment they might use in each area. Also agree that coax is not likely to be the medium for relaying TV signals in future so why not just 2 or 3 coax to any location likely to have a sky box (and possibility of moving to alternative location if relevant) and 1 coax for UHF signals to likely TV locations including high wallmount ones. Cabling to the TVs has to allow for links to the DVD player as much as the sky decoder, keeping in mind that it might be easier to fit a remote-control sensor at the TV that feeds the Sky box hidden in a cupboard somewhere with the media centre.

Note what Cyril said about putting outlets in odd locations that you might use for wireless or other out-of-the-way equipment, and I might add a hidden cable at the front door to allow for an intercom later and perhaps also any hard to access spot if you might want a security camera there oneday.

My idea is to allow enough space and cabling at the distributor cabinet to support any hubs and switches you need, which hopefully reduces the amount of gear and tangled AV cables sitting below the TV. Better to connect all the cables in a way that lets you move things to the most convenient place. I reckon its still worth having a wired phone somewhere, even if its just a spare, because the structured cabling is supposed to support any device you plug into it. And the advantage is that centralising things lets you decide what needs UPS protection during a power cut, probably the modem and wireless. Not sure what cabinets actually fit a small UPS but those 12V alarm power supplies might do the job.

Good luck anyway!

Time to find a new industry!

Zeon

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#636696 6-Jun-2012 14:36

sbiddle:
chevrolux:
illicit: http://www.tcf.org.nz/content/02b3940f-1b3b-4cc8-bfc6-28173756da29.html

I like the TCF's guidlines on how to set up a cabinet and all that but the cabling amounts are just retarded. You can't just say to people run 2xcat6 and 2xrg6 to every outlet. Like in their diagram in the office they show there will be a modem, phone, printer and computer. 2xcat6 is not enough! You need 4 network cables. And in the kitchen there is just one phone yet they say run 4 cables to it. WTF?! And don't even get me started on lounge. I think they have that back to front. I would put 2xRG6 and 4xCat6 because you are going to use HDMI most of the time and not RF modulators. Run cables for what you need and then add one extra for future. Don't just cable it to what the TCF say.

The TCF guidelines very clearly say in many places that their guidelines are minimum spec.

The problem is the vast majority of people don't really have a clue. I was installing a master filter at a house recently probably close to a $1 million last week and underdoing a complete refit. The sparky there
was simply rewiring the phone in series with somewhere in the vicinity of 7 jackpoints. He was also using RG59 for the TV. He quite clearly knew nothing about TV or data despite thinking he was an expert.

Did you tell the homeowners about it - did they even want to know?

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nickb800

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#644062 20-Jun-2012 22:35

Pre-wire went well, got the cabling done in half a day, spent the rest of the day tidying things up at the cabinet end.

Had a good chat with the sparky who was doing his thing while I did mine, he seemed pretty clued up. Im now curious how well he would have done the data stuff if left to his own, that is can he can talk the talk, can he walk the walk. At the very least, having an understanding out there in the trade is a great start for smart homes and such.
Sounds like Chorus (or someone) are now delivering fibre-ready seminars for sparky's - what a great idea!

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