DIY and working on roofs.

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#938286 21-Nov-2013 06:59

Fred99: When I was a kid, we used to play on our garage roof, but the time we were about 10, we could safely jump off it onto the ground.
If the namby-pambies managed to be persuaded by vested interests of the roofing industry association that you're not allowed to go on to your own roof, I'll simply disobey that law.
NZ is going nuts - if the safety/building consent laws we have now had been in place in the 1850s, then we'd all be living in tents.

Like the Wellington guy who refused to comply with the Bicycle helmit laws citing reasons similar to your statement. He was killed when he had an accident on his bike, cause of death.... Head injury.

Porboynz

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#938291 21-Nov-2013 07:32

KiwiNZ:
Fred99: When I was a kid, we used to play on our garage roof, but the time we were about 10, we could safely jump off it onto the ground.
If the namby-pambies managed to be persuaded by vested interests of the roofing industry association that you're not allowed to go on to your own roof, I'll simply disobey that law.
NZ is going nuts - if the safety/building consent laws we have now had been in place in the 1850s, then we'd all be living in tents.

Like the Wellington guy who refused to comply with the Bicycle helmit laws citing reasons similar to your statement. He was killed when he had an accident on his bike, cause of death.... Head injury.

Its sad he died either with or without a helmet. Interesting thread this, because we are all affected by what feel like onerous regulations at the time like seatbelts and bicycle helmets, then it becomes second nature. I would never dream of riding my bike on road or off road without a helmet and putting on a seatbelt is now part of the process like starting the engine. OSH and ACC etc are trying to reduce the number of accidents, they are mandated to do this. Its a matter of percentages to them, you and I can clamber all over our low pitched non slippery roof without an accident, but across the entire country someone is going to fall because they did not expect that broken tile to trip them, that painted over skylight, that roof pitch that's just a bit steeper and slipperier. I lost a workmate years ago who fell off a ladder while painting his house and he was a foreman who taught ladder safety, if anyone knew the risks he did.

Where it gets annoying for me is the reluctance for people to accept that after all reasonable risks are managed, accidents are still going to happen because life is dangerous. Is it urban myth that some schools have cut down all their trees to stop kids climbing them? How do they learn to manage risk in later life? Maybe they all grow up to go work at ACC and OSH and create safety laws. Just kidding.

E3xtc

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#938317 21-Nov-2013 08:19

I would encourage the use of safety systems - even for residential environments - i have to get on the roof and clean the gutters, etc a few times each year - if I fell from the highest point on the roof, it is certain that I would (at best) be in hospital.
This post has started me thinking (again) about what options I have - I like the idea of getting a couple of roofing anchors put in the most appropriate location, then hooking up to it each time I am running around on the roof....but I wonder about how realistic this is retro fitting these to houses....

What do other people use?

Fred99

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#938318 21-Nov-2013 08:20

KiwiNZ:
Fred99: When I was a kid, we used to play on our garage roof, but the time we were about 10, we could safely jump off it onto the ground.
If the namby-pambies managed to be persuaded by vested interests of the roofing industry association that you're not allowed to go on to your own roof, I'll simply disobey that law.
NZ is going nuts - if the safety/building consent laws we have now had been in place in the 1850s, then we'd all be living in tents.

Like the Wellington guy who refused to comply with the Bicycle helmit laws citing reasons similar to your statement. He was killed when he had an accident on his bike, cause of death.... Head injury.

http://cyclinghealth.org.nz/

Things may not be what they at first seem to be.
I'm in favour of revoking compulsory cycle helmet laws for many reasons.

Fred99

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#938319 21-Nov-2013 08:22

mattwnz: There is something to be said for having a low pitched roof.

Not in the NZ guidelines for working on roofs, unlike guidelines and legislation in other countries.

coffeebaron

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#938322 21-Nov-2013 08:32

What do Sky TV installers use?

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MikeB4

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#938329 21-Nov-2013 09:02

Fred99:
KiwiNZ:
Fred99: When I was a kid, we used to play on our garage roof, but the time we were about 10, we could safely jump off it onto the ground.
If the namby-pambies managed to be persuaded by vested interests of the roofing industry association that you're not allowed to go on to your own roof, I'll simply disobey that law.
NZ is going nuts - if the safety/building consent laws we have now had been in place in the 1850s, then we'd all be living in tents.

Like the Wellington guy who refused to comply with the Bicycle helmit laws citing reasons similar to your statement. He was killed when he had an accident on his bike, cause of death.... Head injury.

http://cyclinghealth.org.nz/

Things may not be what they at first seem to be.
I'm in favour of revoking compulsory cycle helmet laws for many reasons.

That site is very unconvincing

Do you oppose compulsory Seat belts?

I would like to see the helmet laws tightened and laws requiring the wearing of High Vis clothing on Bicycles and and Motorbikes.
There needs to be a limit on the height of ladders.

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Fred99

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#938338 21-Nov-2013 09:20

Porboynz: Is it urban myth that some schools have cut down all their trees to stop kids climbing them? How do they learn to manage risk in later life? Maybe they all grow up to go work at ACC and OSH and create safety laws. Just kidding.

I haven't heard of schools cutting down trees to stop kids climbing them, but nothing would surprise me. Climbing trees in the school grounds was certainly actively discouraged/banned at the primary school my son was at, children inclined to do it anyway usually ended up on Ritalin. Society (IMO) doesn't manage risk very well at all, because the general public don't understand risk.
The risk that policy-makers know all too well, is that the possibility of an accident is brought to their attention, and even if they can show that the statistical probability of harm is low, then they will be blamed if they don't "do the something" that the namby-pambies are demanding. Anecdotes make far better headlines than statistics, so wrapping them up in cotton-wool becomes the default.

sbiddle

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#938343 21-Nov-2013 09:27

coffeebaron: What do Sky TV installers use?

Many try and avoid the roof and use a lower point for an install.

Fred99

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#938350 21-Nov-2013 09:46

KiwiNZ:
Fred99:
KiwiNZ:
Fred99: When I was a kid, we used to play on our garage roof, but the time we were about 10, we could safely jump off it onto the ground.
If the namby-pambies managed to be persuaded by vested interests of the roofing industry association that you're not allowed to go on to your own roof, I'll simply disobey that law.
NZ is going nuts - if the safety/building consent laws we have now had been in place in the 1850s, then we'd all be living in tents.

Like the Wellington guy who refused to comply with the Bicycle helmit laws citing reasons similar to your statement. He was killed when he had an accident on his bike, cause of death.... Head injury.

http://cyclinghealth.org.nz/

Things may not be what they at first seem to be.
I'm in favour of revoking compulsory cycle helmet laws for many reasons.

That site is very unconvincing

Do you oppose compulsory Seat belts?

I would like to see the helmet laws tightened and laws requiring the wearing of High Vis clothing on Bicycles and and Motorbikes.
There needs to be a limit on the height of ladders.

From an ideological POV and "starting point", I'm opposed to government interference with what should be the basic human right for anybody to do absolutely anything that they like - so long as whatever they do does not interfere with the rights of anybody else to enjoy the same freedom.

That site is "unconvincing" to you, because you have a obvious bias in favour of authoritarian government controls on citizen's freedom. IMO, the site may be "controversial" - but that's a good thing.

Wearing a seat belt and compulsory bike helmets are a poor comparison. There's a mass of evidence to show that seat belts do work to reduce injury/death, fastening a seat belt is trivial and seldom inconvenient, and in cases where it it inconvenient, the law allows exceptions.

MikeB4

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#938354 21-Nov-2013 09:53

Fred99:
KiwiNZ:
Fred99:
KiwiNZ:
Fred99: When I was a kid, we used to play on our garage roof, but the time we were about 10, we could safely jump off it onto the ground.
If the namby-pambies managed to be persuaded by vested interests of the roofing industry association that you're not allowed to go on to your own roof, I'll simply disobey that law.
NZ is going nuts - if the safety/building consent laws we have now had been in place in the 1850s, then we'd all be living in tents.

Like the Wellington guy who refused to comply with the Bicycle helmit laws citing reasons similar to your statement. He was killed when he had an accident on his bike, cause of death.... Head injury.

http://cyclinghealth.org.nz/

Things may not be what they at first seem to be.
I'm in favour of revoking compulsory cycle helmet laws for many reasons.

That site is very unconvincing

Do you oppose compulsory Seat belts?

I would like to see the helmet laws tightened and laws requiring the wearing of High Vis clothing on Bicycles and and Motorbikes.
There needs to be a limit on the height of ladders.

From an ideological POV and "starting point", I'm opposed to government interference with what should be the basic human right for anybody to do absolutely anything that they like - so long as whatever they do does not interfere with the rights of anybody else to enjoy the same freedom.

That site is "unconvincing" to you, because you have a obvious bias in favour of authoritarian government controls on citizen's freedom. IMO, the site may be "controversial" - but that's a good thing.

Wearing a seat belt and compulsory bike helmets are a poor comparison. There's a mass of evidence to show that seat belts do work to reduce injury/death, fastening a seat belt is trivial and seldom inconvenient, and in cases where it it inconvenient, the law allows exceptions.

So you would support the denial of tax payer funded medical treatment to anyone injured in a bicycle accident who was not wearing a helmet

Go talk to some doctors re the effectiveness of cycle helmets

When someone "absolutely anything that they like" others pick up the cost and have to clean up the mess.

Bung

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#938355 21-Nov-2013 09:53

coffeebaron: What do Sky TV installers use?

In at least one area they say they've been told to stay off roofs and they attach the dish to walls or an eaves mount bracket.

Fred99

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#938356 21-Nov-2013 09:57

sbiddle:
coffeebaron: What do Sky TV installers use?

Many try and avoid the roof and use a lower point for an install.

So long as line of sight to the satellite is possible, then regardless of safety considerations, it's probably less hassle than attaching it to the roof anyway.
Perhaps the question should be "what do UHF aerial installers use", as they're more likely to need to get the aerial as high as possible.

MikeB4

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#938357 21-Nov-2013 09:58

coffeebaron: What do Sky TV installers use?

If a customer wants the Dish located on the roof then they should meet the cost of scaffolds or personal lifting devices.

Fred99

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#938362 21-Nov-2013 10:14

KiwiNZ:

So you would support the denial of tax payer funded medical treatment to anyone injured in a bicycle accident who was not wearing a helmet

That funding would be via ACC not "The Taxpayer".
If you want to pursue that route, then forcing compulsory registration of all bicycles, including payment of an ACC levy would be the result, but we'd also need to make it compulsory to register skis and snowboards, horses, stiletto shoes. All cats should be de-clawed, dogs fitted with rubber dentures, cigarette lighters made "adult proof", and introduce compulsory blood alcohol limits before use of a frypan. Would you like some more non sequiturs to add to your collection?

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