Advice on Residential Fence replacement and neighbour

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#1116583 27-Aug-2014 15:32

How was it determined that it is asbestos, age or profile? Even if it is asbestos the official line probably is that it is safe when painted. The Government owns too many buildings clad in it to say otherwise.

timmmay

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#1116593 27-Aug-2014 15:38

I think you'd need a written opinion from the council or some kind of authority saying it's not safe before you can get that fence down.

BlueShift

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#1116601 27-Aug-2014 15:40

networkn:
If the builder removing and disposing of the fences doesn't do so in an approved manner, are we are him responsible?

IANAL, but I would assume that, if you have engaged the builder specifically to deal with the asbestos safely, then its on him. You have discharged your responsibility by engaging an appropriate professional, its his responsibility to do the job to the appropriate standard.

networkn

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#1116607 27-Aug-2014 15:43

timmmay: I think you'd need a written opinion from the council or some kind of authority saying it's not safe before you can get that fence down.

Yah unsure who the appropriate body for that would be. I'll keep hunting for that information.

gzt

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#1116622 27-Aug-2014 15:47

networkn:
gzt:
networkn: If we are prepared to pay the whole cost, we potentially can do so without the difficult neighbour having any say if I understand correctly?

Personally I don't see it that way. From his point of view the existing fence does not need replacement. You will be damaging [half] someone else's property without agreement.

But from a practical point of view if you get the job done fast enough and the result is comparable or better then it is unlikely he will object to the result, or if he does, unlikely that any real grounds will be present for much liability.

You are likely right. He is a difficult guy it would seem, though his focus is entirely on cost it would seem (Indian accountant). It could be he is holding out to see if we will replace it at our cost.

Unfortunately the typical 'investor' approach is do not replace it until it has some impact on receiving income. From his pov I'd guess it does not need replacing at all, rather than a negotiating strategy.

If the builder removing and disposing of the fences doesn't do so in an approved manner, are we are him responsible?

I would expect he is. There are fines for incorrect dumping of hazardous material. If for example he misrepresented his service that would be a fraud also. However, I would expect for example that if he left material on your neighbors property or did not complete the job in some way then you would be responsible for sorting out the issues.

Niel

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#1116645 27-Aug-2014 16:14

It is a strong panel designed for outdoor use, and not like ceiling panels which turn to dust when they break and then spread fibres inside a house. I've seen those panels broken, it is more like fibreglass. I don't think you can sight a safety issue, nor that it could become one.

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networkn

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#1116663 27-Aug-2014 16:25

Niel: It is a strong panel designed for outdoor use, and not like ceiling panels which turn to dust when they break and then spread fibres inside a house. I've seen those panels broken, it is more like fibreglass. I don't think you can sight a safety issue, nor that it could become one.

Interestingly the builder just made the same comment.

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mattwnz

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#1116685 27-Aug-2014 16:48

Niel: It is a strong panel designed for outdoor use, and not like ceiling panels which turn to dust when they break and then spread fibres inside a house. I've seen those panels broken, it is more like fibreglass. I don't think you can sight a safety issue, nor that it could become one.

Depends on it's condition, as when it ages it becomes more friable. If it is cracked anywhere it is also a risk. Personally if I had asbestos on my property I would want it removing, as I beleive it will only be a matter of time before it will be notifiable on the LIM, as there are already calls for this.

mattwnz

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#1116687 27-Aug-2014 16:50

networkn:
timmmay: I think you'd need a written opinion from the council or some kind of authority saying it's not safe before you can get that fence down.

Yah unsure who the appropriate body for that would be. I'll keep hunting for that information.

That would probably be looking at structural issues. eg if a child climbed on the fence, would there be a risk of it collapsing on them. Not sure if councils get involved in accessing fences, as they are usually allowed without any form of consent as long as they are below a certain height.

mattwnz

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#1116690 27-Aug-2014 16:54

networkn:
mattwnz: If you are getting an asbestos fence removed, I would have thought you would need to get proper asbestos removal people in, and that isn't cheap. The asbestos needs to be encapsulated, transported safely and disposed of in an approved place. If the fence is at risk of falling down the asbestos could crack and the particles could be released. I would also be wary of painting it, as it could be dangerous to the paint, as if they brush it down or sand it to get a good clean surface, it could also throw up particles that could be breathed in. At the moment I don't think their is any requirement to notify on this sort of work, so cowboys could do the work unsafely and contaminate your land with asbestos bits and particles. But I would like to see that changed, as it is a terrible material that is slowly killing many who have worked with it. Personally I would get an asbestos professional in to look at it, and see what they say is the best thing to do. They may say the fence will be fine for the next 5 years, as long as it isn't friable or cracked and the asbestos isn't disturbed, it is probably safer than having it removed or painted by novices who don't know what they are doing.

The quote includes the specific requirements for safe and proper disposal. The guy who is doing it, has done a lot of them. The risk is relatively low we are told, because they are constructed in such a way that leakage isn't that big a risk.

You would need to check that they have a certificate to carry out such work. I was involved with the removal of an asbestos roof which is the corrugated version of the exterior wall panels you would have on your fence, and they sprayed it with a PVA solution to encapsulate the particles, and everything was wrapped in polythene and was taken to an approved disposal area. There are all sorts of safety things to be aware of. More info can be found at http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1392

nickrout

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#1116799 27-Aug-2014 19:45

Haven't read every post and haven't in practice struck this situation before, but your situation would be eased perhaps it the council or WorkSafe steps in, particulary if (just say) a cricket ball went through the fence and fibres were released. Just saying...

bazzer

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#1117892 29-Aug-2014 12:30

I have reservations about having a similar conversation with my neighbour. Our boundary is quite long with them so I suspect the fence (new in our case, not a replacement of an existing fence) will be more expensive than yours. I wouldn't know what to do to encourage them to go halves if they were not so inclined.

networkn: He is a difficult guy it would seem, though his focus is entirely on cost it would seem (Indian accountant).

What does the fact that he's Indian got to do with it?

mattwnz

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#1117924 29-Aug-2014 13:00

bazzer: I have reservations about having a similar conversation with my neighbour. Our boundary is quite long with them so I suspect the fence (new in our case, not a replacement of an existing fence) will be more expensive than yours. I wouldn't know what to do to encourage them to go halves if they were not so inclined.

networkn: He is a difficult guy it would seem, though his focus is entirely on cost it would seem (Indian accountant).

What does the fact that he's Indian got to do with it?

The empathise is probably on the word accountant, eg tight bean counter.

bazzer

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#1117926 29-Aug-2014 13:06

mattwnz:
bazzer: I have reservations about having a similar conversation with my neighbour. Our boundary is quite long with them so I suspect the fence (new in our case, not a replacement of an existing fence) will be more expensive than yours. I wouldn't know what to do to encourage them to go halves if they were not so inclined.

networkn: He is a difficult guy it would seem, though his focus is entirely on cost it would seem (Indian accountant).

What does the fact that he's Indian got to do with it?

The empathise is probably on the word accountant, eg tight bean counter.

Then couldn't he have just written "accountant"? What does "Indian" add to the discussion other than feeling a bit racist?

mattwnz

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#1117927 29-Aug-2014 13:07

Niel: It is a strong panel designed for outdoor use, and not like ceiling panels which turn to dust when they break and then spread fibres inside a house. I've seen those panels broken, it is more like fibreglass. I don't think you can sight a safety issue, nor that it could become one.

?

Asbestos comes in many forms and materials. Many people have it in textured ceiling finishes inside their house, or in old vinyl tiles. Many people also have it in soffit linings outside their house, or under their hot water cylinder. I believe some older insulation had some in it. But any should be treated as hazardous. There does appear to be a lack of awareness about it, or people don't really want to know. Certainly people don't want it going onto their LIM or BIM. But many DIYers have probably been exposed to particles as they have been doing up their homes , but it probably won't affect them for a few decades.

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