Best value, thermally efficient windows for rentals?

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mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2072763 13-Aug-2018 15:59

heugumper:

How much cost is involved on recessing the windows, getting them closer to the centre or the wall insulation? Seems to be the norm in some countries and certainly in passive houses, so maybe it is cost effective for the thermal improvement?

It comes down to detailing, and the type of cladding being used. It isn't so easy with timber weatherboard, and getting the detailing right. There are some recessed window system though for certain cladding types. I did some on a metal clad house. But windows lose a lot of heat anyway, so not sure if there is a huge difference in heat loss by not recessing them, but would be interested to see the figures.. It is possibly more cost effective to upspec the R values in the insulation. What R values are you using for walls and ceiling. We put R 5.0 in our ceiling.

timmmay

20574 posts

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#2072836 13-Aug-2018 17:01

Yoban:

I have just replaced all my joinery with aluminium a few years back and could not afford thermally broken at the time - you would think too that central auckland in the winter this would not be an issue. As @MikeAqua has mentioned I too have the issue of sweating/condensation on the frames which frustrates me. Even with a heat pump running at night on 18 degrees well above the dew point, it still happens.

On the flip side friends have done similar and very little if any condensation, but have centrally ducted heat pump system. My theory is since the system removes the moist air via the return and thus nothing left to build up on the frames.

Sure would be interesting to see the effect of thermally broken in my place.

I have PVC window frames and a ventilation system, but I don't run the ventilation system at night as it pushes cold air in. I get no condensation on the frames at all, ever.

When it's 20 - 22 degrees inside and 5-8 outside and two adults sleeping in the room we get enough condensation on the windows that a face cloth would get damp wiping it off. When it's 0 outside the facecloth would be quite wet. In comparison, in our toddlers room that's a bit warmer there's nothing on the windows.

Before we had double glazing the windows got wet enough that water would puddle on the window sill and a full sized towel ends up saturated after wiping the windows and sills, so double glazing was a big gain.

heugumper

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2072874 13-Aug-2018 17:19

raytaylor, I like that idea of temperature sensors on the hot water pipe, thanks for sharing. Much better than connecting to the light (that one tenant un-wired). Does the fan go off when the pipe cools again, so a little after the hot water stops running?

mattwnz, I would be happy living in any of my rentals, some are even better insulated than my own place. But the price still matters, hence asking around. I have seen modelling on recessed windows and it made a considerable difference (relative's passive house in Europe), but "the devil is in the detailing", so yes, easier on some cladding than others. Walls, floors and roof all likely to be SIP. Still deciding on provider and thickness, but R values anywhere between R3 and 7. Site is small, so I don't want to overdo the wall thickness.

rb99, I have read the ecobob thread some months back, but forgot where I read it, so good to book mark it now that it's in season for me. I discovered Mitten by Vinyl cladding in my Sunday brunch reading, but thanks for sharing. Have you used them for anything (cladding, windows, etc)?

Has anybody dealt with http://www.vinylcladding.co.nz/?

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2072877 13-Aug-2018 17:32

Yoban:
MikeAqua:

If you go alu windows then +1 for thermally broken. We don't have it in our house (not built by us) and condensation on the window frames is an issue in winter in the bathroom and bedrooms. Manageable by opening windows etc regularly, but a PITA and better to have thermally broken.

I have just replaced all my joinery with aluminium a few years back and could not afford thermally broken at the time - you would think too that central auckland in the winter this would not be an issue. As @MikeAqua has mentioned I too have the issue of sweating/condensation on the frames which frustrates me. Even with a heat pump running at night on 18 degrees well above the dew point, it still happens.

On the flip side friends have done similar and very little if any condensation, but have centrally ducted heat pump system. My theory is since the system removes the moist air via the return and thus nothing left to build up on the frames.

Sure would be interesting to see the effect of thermally broken in my place.

If the frames themselves get cold enough- they will get condensation on them. This is why thermally broken Aluminium or PVC is so important.

As a kludge, try leaving the curtains open. This will allow the windows and the frames to warm up more. And hopefully stop them from getting cold enough for condensation to form. Problem is that you will have more heat loss from doing so.

Bigger kludge- stick a thin layer of foam onto the outside of the frames.

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2072944 13-Aug-2018 19:53

heugumper:

mattwnz, I would be happy living in any of my rentals, some are even better insulated than my own place. But the price still matters, hence asking around. I have seen modelling on recessed windows and it made a considerable difference (relative's passive house in Europe), but "the devil is in the detailing", so yes, easier on some cladding than others. Walls, floors and roof all likely to be SIP. Still deciding on provider and thickness, but R values anywhere between R3 and 7. Site is small, so I don't want to overdo the wall thickness.

From what I have seen, SIP is just a replacement for framing and insulation. So you would still need a cladding (and guessing cavity batten over building wrap ) over the top of that. The cladding though will influence whether the windows are recessed or not, because in many cases recessing will increase the detailing and cost, unless you are using something like brick cavity, or concrete block where the windows are normally recessed.

rb99

3422 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2072978 13-Aug-2018 22:28

heugumper:

rb99, I have read the ecobob thread some months back, but forgot where I read it, so good to book mark it now that it's in season for me. I discovered Mitten by Vinyl cladding in my Sunday brunch reading, but thanks for sharing. Have you used them for anything (cladding, windows, etc)?

No sorry, haven't used them - its an interesting topic and I though I'd try to contribute just a little bit, but we'd have to win the Lotto first...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

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