Issues with district plan compliance

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mdav056

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#2589588 20-Oct-2020 22:02

An aside here, on notification. I live in a mixed residential area in Auckland, and have just discovered plans for a very large residential home to be built on a nearby vacant area of which we have a decent view. Some neighbours have a complete view down on to it, but neither I nor they were notified. Because of this, I just had my objection refused, and I will not he heard. I understand -- and may need correction here - that the developers and the council together decide who shall be notified. Is there any way of objecting to the extent of the notifications? Arrgh.

gml

BlinkyBill

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#2589610 21-Oct-2020 05:02

mdav056:

An aside here, on notification. I live in a mixed residential area in Auckland, and have just discovered plans for a very large residential home to be built on a nearby vacant area of which we have a decent view. Some neighbours have a complete view down on to it, but neither I nor they were notified. Because of this, I just had my objection refused, and I will not he heard. I understand -- and may need correction here - that the developers and the council together decide who shall be notified. Is there any way of objecting to the extent of the notifications? Arrgh.

in Wellington you would not be notified if the design/plan was compliant with planning rules. You would only be notified if there was a non-compliant aspect; as an example (and this is ongoing so I may be out of date here) there is a plan to build a retirement village in Karori where the teachers college was; and only a few adjacent houses were notified due to sunlight shading impacts. This is a huge village in the middle of a residential area, but only directly impacted residences were notified.

I don’t know on what basis you were objecting, but based on the rules in Wellington unless you are objecting to a notifiable, or should have been notified, basis, then there is no ability to object. So one persons appalling bad taste design means nothing and is acceptable to Wellington City Council.

Jase2985

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#2589613 21-Oct-2020 05:55

mdav056:

An aside here, on notification. I live in a mixed residential area in Auckland, and have just discovered plans for a very large residential home to be built on a nearby vacant area of which we have a decent view. Some neighbours have a complete view down on to it, but neither I nor they were notified. Because of this, I just had my objection refused, and I will not he heard. I understand -- and may need correction here - that the developers and the council together decide who shall be notified. Is there any way of objecting to the extent of the notifications? Arrgh.

for resource consent it depends on what type of rule you are "breaking" as to weather its notified or not.

Lastman

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#2589649 21-Oct-2020 09:04

tchart:

WinNZ90:

And I am afraid it just gets worse from there, as of the 31st August 2020 the updated the building consent process...

“From 31 August 2020, additional building consent exemptions have been added to the Building Act. Building consents are no longer be needed for a number of new or expanded types of low-risk building work, like sleep-outs, sheds, carports, outdoor fireplaces and ground-mounted solar panels.

The new exemptions will save building owners time and money, by not having to go to their local council for consent for common building projects. This reduction in building consents will also allow Councils to focus on building work that is higher-risk, helping to boost productivity.”

So yes he might have been able to get it built without needing consent so long as he is having it built to code, he can build it.

BUT

My understanding of the building code, the change in August is only for one storey buildings.

If he is going to have two floors and its not just a shed that stands two storeys high, it is not exempt and it’s especially not if its going to have its own sanitation area since that would class it as a second dwelling.

Interesting, thanks for the information. The new (August) rules AFAIK only apply up to 30m2.

Building consent has been given from the council but no resource consent was needed since the council believe it meets the rules as per the DP.

Regardless of any building consent requirements a structure still has to meet the district plan rules(for non-notifiable).

So set-back distances, building envelope come into that.

mdav056

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#2589673 21-Oct-2020 09:56

BlinkyBill:

mdav056:

An aside here, on notification. I live in a mixed residential area in Auckland, and have just discovered plans for a very large residential home to be built on a nearby vacant area of which we have a decent view. Some neighbours have a complete view down on to it, but neither I nor they were notified. Because of this, I just had my objection refused, and I will not he heard. I understand -- and may need correction here - that the developers and the council together decide who shall be notified. Is there any way of objecting to the extent of the notifications? Arrgh.

in Wellington you would not be notified if the design/plan was compliant with planning rules. You would only be notified if there was a non-compliant aspect; as an example (and this is ongoing so I may be out of date here) there is a plan to build a retirement village in Karori where the teachers college was; and only a few adjacent houses were notified due to sunlight shading impacts. This is a huge village in the middle of a residential area, but only directly impacted residences were notified.

I don’t know on what basis you were objecting, but based on the rules in Wellington unless you are objecting to a notifiable, or should have been notified, basis, then there is no ability to object. So one persons appalling bad taste design means nothing and is acceptable to Wellington City Council.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Definitely breaks the Auck Unitary plan (height), and went to "limited notification", so some some badly affected people were notified, so just like your Karori example. Many of us only got to know about the development when one of the notified people put a flier in mail boxes. I objected on a "should have been notified" basis, and that objection was rejected given that I wasn't notified! Catch-22 here -- can't object on a "should have been notified" basis if you weren't notified!

gml

Bung

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#2589674 21-Oct-2020 10:03

mdav056:
An aside here, on notification. I live in a mixed residential area in Auckland, and have just discovered plans for a very large residential home to be built on a nearby vacant area of which we have a decent view. Some neighbours have a complete view down on to it, but neither I nor they were notified.

If you have a view down onto the property how does the height of the build have any significant effect?

tchart

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#2589675 21-Oct-2020 10:10

mdav056:

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Definitely breaks the Auck Unitary plan (height), and went to "limited notification", so some some badly affected people were notified, so just like your Karori example. Many of us only got to know about the development when one of the notified people put a flier in mail boxes. I objected on a "should have been notified" basis, and that objection was rejected given that I wasn't notified! Catch-22 here -- can't object on a "should have been notified" basis if you weren't notified!

Yep and apparently you cant go to the environment court unless you were one of the notified.

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mdav056

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#2589690 21-Oct-2020 11:17

Bung:
mdav056:

An aside here, on notification. I live in a mixed residential area in Auckland, and have just discovered plans for a very large residential home to be built on a nearby vacant area of which we have a decent view. Some neighbours have a complete view down on to it, but neither I nor they were notified.

If you have a view down onto the property how does the height of the build have any significant effect?

For me, probably not, except I feel that the replacement of a nice large green sward with a large bunch of buildings viewable from our deck is significant for me. Anyway, it is the principle of the thing -- they should build within the plan, not try to exceed it -- and, in particular, they should not decide so conservatively on who gets notified, they should actually have a look around the area rather than just look at maps.

There are, of course, many other problems for all of us, not just for me. I wanted to help them, too. Basically, I object to not being notified. But I can't.

gml

tchart

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#2589693 21-Oct-2020 11:31

The main problem seems to be that the councils have all these rules in the District Plan but are willing to break them as doing so will generate more rates income.

Obviously not so much when it comes to Joe Public but if youre building a three storey retirement home then go for your life.

mdav056

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#2589699 21-Oct-2020 11:48

tchart:

The main problem seems to be that the councils have all these rules in the District Plan but are willing to break them as doing so will generate more rates income.

Obviously not so much when it comes to Joe Public but if youre building a three storey retirement home then go for your life.

8 storey...😱 But yes.

gml

Bung

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#2589704 21-Oct-2020 11:56

mdav056:
For me, probably not, except I feel that the replacement of a nice large green sward with a large bunch of buildings viewable from our deck is significant for me. Anyway, it is the principle of the thing -- they should build within the plan, not try to exceed it -- and, in particular, they should not decide so conservatively on who gets notified, they should actually have a look around the area rather than just look at maps.

There are, of course, many other problems for all of us, not just for me. I wanted to help them, too. Basically, I object to not being notified. But I can't.

Unfortunately for you unless you live on the edge of a public reserve you've probably got no realistic chance of retaining a green outlook. Auckland apparently has 90% of building consents also requiring Resource Consent. They probably have to be selective or nothing would get done.

It's easier with some money. I know of one person who bought a 2 storey house that spoilt his sunset, dropped it to single level and sold with a covenant to keep it single level and another who bought the house opposite just to be able to resell protected against that house ever blocking his Wellington Harbour views. There is one ridge line in Roseneath noted for the line of houses that one by one blocked the sea view of the neighbours behind them.

BlinkyBill

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#2589709 21-Oct-2020 12:31

tchart:

mdav056:

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Definitely breaks the Auck Unitary plan (height), and went to "limited notification", so some some badly affected people were notified, so just like your Karori example. Many of us only got to know about the development when one of the notified people put a flier in mail boxes. I objected on a "should have been notified" basis, and that objection was rejected given that I wasn't notified! Catch-22 here -- can't object on a "should have been notified" basis if you weren't notified!

Yep and apparently you cant go to the environment court unless you were one of the notified.

Prima-facie this sounds like bull crap, not being able to lodge an objection unless you were notified. However, as a ratepayer I wouldn’t want my rates to go into the Council responding to every objection that comes in, most of which will be ill-informed, or not informed at all. There does need to be a hurdle to jump over to prevent specious objections.

But this also relies on the planning personnel doing their job properly, which in most cases they will be, but when it comes to ‘taste’ and ‘enjoyment’, being harder to qualify and subjective, they will tend towards a tick-the-boxes approach, and veer away from judgement.

If there is a group of concerned ratepayers, then probably the only way to go is to, and I hate to say it, get an appropriately experienced lawyer on board to act on behalf of the group. And that’ll take organisation and money.

antonknee

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#2589710 21-Oct-2020 12:42

mdav056:

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Definitely breaks the Auck Unitary plan (height), and went to "limited notification", so some some badly affected people were notified, so just like your Karori example. Many of us only got to know about the development when one of the notified people put a flier in mail boxes. I objected on a "should have been notified" basis, and that objection was rejected given that I wasn't notified! Catch-22 here -- can't object on a "should have been notified" basis if you weren't notified!

Where do you draw the line? If every little thing got notified to every person who could possibly be impacted, nothing would get done - worse if each of those people didn't like what was happening.

I don't think one's desire to look at an empty piece of grass should restrict construction quite frankly. If you wish to look at undisturbed grass, you might like to consider living rurally rather than in the biggest city in the country.

tchart

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#2589718 21-Oct-2020 13:10

antonknee:

Where do you draw the line? If every little thing got notified to every person who could possibly be impacted, nothing would get done - worse if each of those people didn't like what was happening.

I don't think one's desire to look at an empty piece of grass should restrict construction quite frankly. If you wish to look at undisturbed grass, you might like to consider living rurally rather than in the biggest city in the country.

Yes, kind of agree, however there is an expectation that the district plan rules are followed for everyone not just the average person.

Generally one would expect that if council planners used discretion to override a rule that those affected would be notified. Otherwise why even have a district plan and rules.

1101

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#2590150 22-Oct-2020 10:27

antonknee:

Where do you draw the line? If every little thing got notified to every person who could possibly be impacted, nothing would get done - worse if each of those people didn't like what was happening.

I don't think one's desire to look at an empty piece of grass should restrict construction quite frankly. If you wish to look at undisturbed grass, you might like to consider living rurally rather than in the biggest city in the country.

NZ needs more houses , fast. We dont want NIMBY's stopping construction, and stopping historical usage (eg Western Springs , Eden Park)
We need less regulation & bureaucracy . Govt depts & councils have time & time again gone power mad with added regs & rules , making things harder for everyone.

All to easy to build your own 2,3 story house , then complain when someone else wants to build higher .
Pull your house down & replant as native forest , only then do you have the moral right to complain about others construction .

Where do we draw the line. I can look down into my neighbours bedroom & kitchen as my house sits higher , do we force me to lower my house . Can I cut down neighbours
trees to get rid of the shade from them.

Tall ugly trees 100% OK , but not a house or addon 1/2 that height . Seems like a double standard .

Just generalizing, not aimed at OP :-)

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