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dejadeadnz
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  #2361016 26-Nov-2019 16:59
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quickymart:

 

Oh well that that rules out that idea - but thanks for explaining it to me. What a weird setup, even if you meet the age criteria - pay this price for this place but you don't own it or anything; may as well rent!

 

I don't have a deposit, sadly, otherwise I would not be asking all these questions. My family are probably my best bet, as property investors. One of my relatives has over 30 years experience as a chartered accountant, so I trust her judgement and she knows what she's talking about. I will have a look at the Welcome Home Loan as I may qualify for that one.

 

As to moving, yes, my boy's needs could possibly be met elsewhere. But my wife and I both have jobs here, so we'd be starting over, and my other boy is making friends at school and settling in. I'm not too fussed with Auckland - I'm not from here anyway, but I'm stuck here for a while now, at least.

 

I would love to move to Wellington but I don't think their mother would want to move...and I hear that housing in Wellington these days isn't exactly much cheaper than Auckland anyway.

 

Thanks for the tips though, some food for thought there.

 

 

I hate to say it but your latest reply suggests to me that you need to prioritise discussing (and almost certainly sorting out) your finances with a really good budget advisor first. From what I understand, you earn at least above the living wage and your wife also works. I am not saying Auckland isn't expensive but it's concerning to me that you have nothing saved towards a depoisit. Again, try reaching out to one of the community housing organisations - a lot of them provide wrap-around services.

 

If my experience in volunteering at a community law centre and helping people in financial distress re-structure loans etc and seeing what the budget advisors do day-to-day is anything to go by, you currently basically aren't eligible to take part in any kind of NGO-assisted schemes to get into your own home. A 5% deposit/some skin in the game is seen as essential by typically both the NGOs that want to help people and the banks that may ultimate write some/all of the loans. The other problem that you almost certainly have is that any lender would be concerned about your ability to service a loan in the event of interest rate rise (two major banks currently stress test to an interest rate of around 7%) -- if you can't save any kind of deposit, you just aren't going to get home on that stress test. You also will not ever get anywhere near the best interest rates available.

 

You say you are hoping that your family might assist you through a win-win solution, with their "win" presumably either a fee/interest for their share of the capital contribution towards the purchase price or the ability to share in the capital gains later. Two things to bear in mind: in assessing your ability to service a loan, lenders must take into account what you are obliged to pay your relatives by way of the fee/interest; if they are looking to cash in on capital gains later (and your relatives aren't just gifting the money to you), I doubt they would be happy with a property sharing agreement with terms whereby you/your family can keep the home for as long as you want to live there, unless you give them some regular returns on the deposit contribution. If your property sharing agreement doesn't clearly articulate when the parties have to sell up, in cases of disagreements you are looking at potential litigation and a court-ordered sale. This is ugly.

 

Regardless of how one looks at it, your situation and numbers don't strike me as having much likelihood of working until the finances are sorted out.




quickymart

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  #2361132 26-Nov-2019 20:37
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Yep, you're right. I don't have a deposit. My family have said they would assist me with this part. But I'll talk to a budget advisor and get some tips/pointers on what to do. I have an idea in my head about what I could do to make this work but going on what you're saying it doesn't sound like it could work out. There are a few other things going on at the moment that could also impact how this pans out but I'd rather not go into them on here. But thanks anyway.


dejadeadnz
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  #2361156 26-Nov-2019 21:06
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Just to confirm, when you say that you have nothing saved towards a deposit, you do realise that you can withdraw your Kiwisaver funds to buy a first home? And even if you've owned a house before, provided that you are assessed as being substantially in a similar position to a first home buyer, HNZ may allow you to withdraw from Kiwisaver again.

 

Honestly, I do feel for you and hope that something eventually works out. It might be that in trying to own a house, you might have to start off with getting your feet on the ladder via an investment property in a smaller town where the rent covers most, if not all, of the mortgage. This way, you can build up some equity. But you obviously will need a higher deposit in proportion to the purchase price as an investor but if you buy in the right places, things may work out. But there are risks as well. Definitely take your time and take advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 




tdgeek
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  #2364563 2-Dec-2019 12:22
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I like this idea

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/117860489/cooperative-housing-the-future-in-the-eastern-bay

 

Won't suit everyone, but its a nice idea. Its a housing development that's not based around cramming everyone into cheap units, its a lifestyle block based on eco living and cooperation.  


mattwnz
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  #2364604 2-Dec-2019 13:55
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tdgeek:

 

I like this idea

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/117860489/cooperative-housing-the-future-in-the-eastern-bay

 

Won't suit everyone, but its a nice idea. Its a housing development that's not based around cramming everyone into cheap units, its a lifestyle block based on eco living and cooperation.  

 

 

The problem is that we are still bring in so many people into NZ, but have nowhere to house them. Thus pushing out house prices due to supply and demand, and a lack of land. It doesn't appear to have changed even though a change in government was supposed to reduce this. It is great for those that already own a home, because they feel richer and richer as their house value increases. But there is a problem down the track when we have some of the most expensive houses in the world. This type of development looks interesting, but not sure if it is the answer for many. Many people like privacy, and common areas that everyone shares don't tend to work very well in NZ . It has been tried before decades ago in a state housing project, and all the communal areas ended up being divided up. Likewise a common room / dining area ended up being converted into houses. Th sketch also doesn't show garaging, but cars and garaging needs addressing as people in NZ need cars, and these days people want their garage attached to their house so they can just walk in.


tdgeek
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  #2364694 2-Dec-2019 14:11
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

I like this idea

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/117860489/cooperative-housing-the-future-in-the-eastern-bay

 

Won't suit everyone, but its a nice idea. Its a housing development that's not based around cramming everyone into cheap units, its a lifestyle block based on eco living and cooperation.  

 

 

The problem is that we are still bring in so many people into NZ, but have nowhere to house them. Thus pushing out house prices due to supply and demand, and a lack of land. It doesn't appear to have changed even though a change in government was supposed to reduce this. It is great for those that already own a home, because they feel richer and richer as their house value increases. But there is a problem down the track when we have some of the most expensive houses in the world. This type of development looks interesting, but not sure if it is the answer for many. Many people like privacy, and common areas that everyone shares don't tend to work very well in NZ . It has been tried before decades ago in a state housing project, and all the communal areas ended up being divided up. Likewise a common room / dining area ended up being converted into houses. Th sketch also doesn't show garaging, but cars and garaging needs addressing as people in NZ need cars, and these days people want their garage attached to their house so they can just walk in.

 

 

Its a new development, "nowhere to house them" is not relevant. I assume these people are not homeless. So when they move in here, their existing homes are loose on the market, precisely the solution to "nowhere to house them"

 

Its an assumption to compare Kiwis from decades ago to now. Now, there is news most days on tiny homes, talk about apartments, talk about being eco. Its a different world.

 

I did state it won't suit all, but the ones it will suit it will suit very well. And as the articles says, there are others.

 

In this country we are so slow, so NIMBY, so critical. Its good to see some are movers and shakers.

 

This is NZ in a nutshell, a poor indictment on ourselves  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117850262/asias-longterm-planning-is-paying-off-new-zealand-must-learn-from-it

 

 


mattwnz
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  #2365246 3-Dec-2019 00:52
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tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

I like this idea

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/117860489/cooperative-housing-the-future-in-the-eastern-bay

 

Won't suit everyone, but its a nice idea. Its a housing development that's not based around cramming everyone into cheap units, its a lifestyle block based on eco living and cooperation.  

 

 

The problem is that we are still bring in so many people into NZ, but have nowhere to house them. Thus pushing out house prices due to supply and demand, and a lack of land. It doesn't appear to have changed even though a change in government was supposed to reduce this. It is great for those that already own a home, because they feel richer and richer as their house value increases. But there is a problem down the track when we have some of the most expensive houses in the world. This type of development looks interesting, but not sure if it is the answer for many. Many people like privacy, and common areas that everyone shares don't tend to work very well in NZ . It has been tried before decades ago in a state housing project, and all the communal areas ended up being divided up. Likewise a common room / dining area ended up being converted into houses. Th sketch also doesn't show garaging, but cars and garaging needs addressing as people in NZ need cars, and these days people want their garage attached to their house so they can just walk in.

 

 

Its a new development, "nowhere to house them" is not relevant. I assume these people are not homeless. So when they move in here, their existing homes are loose on the market, precisely the solution to "nowhere to house them"

 

Its an assumption to compare Kiwis from decades ago to now. Now, there is news most days on tiny homes, talk about apartments, talk about being eco. Its a different world.

 

I did state it won't suit all, but the ones it will suit it will suit very well. And as the articles says, there are others.

 

In this country we are so slow, so NIMBY, so critical. Its good to see some are movers and shakers.

 

This is NZ in a nutshell, a poor indictment on ourselves  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117850262/asias-longterm-planning-is-paying-off-new-zealand-must-learn-from-it

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that. But this is also NZ, where people invest in houses, and it is their retirement nestegg, and NZers need house prices to keep rising to feel rich, and for the illusion of wealth to keep growing. Then there are banks which feel most comfortable when lending on known things, such as a freehold house. Not sure if those are freehold or not, but when buying a house, most people buying an actual house will try and buy freehold when they can. The one problem with communal situations is what happens if you fall out with your neighbors, or don't get on with some of them. At least with regular houses, we have fences, and cars, so it is easy to avoid the neighbors. 


 
 
 

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.
tdgeek
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  #2365267 3-Dec-2019 07:20
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that. But this is also NZ, where people invest in houses, and it is their retirement nestegg, and NZers need house prices to keep rising to feel rich, and for the illusion of wealth to keep growing. Then there are banks which feel most comfortable when lending on known things, such as a freehold house. Not sure if those are freehold or not, but when buying a house, most people buying an actual house will try and buy freehold when they can. The one problem with communal situations is what happens if you fall out with your neighbors, or don't get on with some of them. At least with regular houses, we have fences, and cars, so it is easy to avoid the neighbors. 

 

 

I agree. For those that like a communal setting, these seem to be growing. I imagine in a communal setting with likeminded people, they can resolve any issues. There are plenty of horror stories for regular houses.


Batman
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  #2365316 3-Dec-2019 09:19
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

I like this idea

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/117860489/cooperative-housing-the-future-in-the-eastern-bay

 

Won't suit everyone, but its a nice idea. Its a housing development that's not based around cramming everyone into cheap units, its a lifestyle block based on eco living and cooperation.  

 

 

The problem is that we are still bring in so many people into NZ, but have nowhere to house them. Thus pushing out house prices due to supply and demand, and a lack of land. It doesn't appear to have changed even though a change in government was supposed to reduce this. It is great for those that already own a home, because they feel richer and richer as their house value increases. But there is a problem down the track when we have some of the most expensive houses in the world. This type of development looks interesting, but not sure if it is the answer for many. Many people like privacy, and common areas that everyone shares don't tend to work very well in NZ . It has been tried before decades ago in a state housing project, and all the communal areas ended up being divided up. Likewise a common room / dining area ended up being converted into houses. Th sketch also doesn't show garaging, but cars and garaging needs addressing as people in NZ need cars, and these days people want their garage attached to their house so they can just walk in.

 

 

i don't think it's problem of "letting people in"

 

it is obvious that every politician that has promised to cut down "letting people in", once they get voted in, they know that cutting down "letting people in" is going to hurt the economy, hence nobody that promises this carrot actually goes on and do it.

 

other than "letting people in", you also have expats who have become rich buying up property. i know some Kiwis who live in England and Australia doing ordinary jobs buying property with cold hard cash.

 

the problem is the govts are short sighted and are unable to build more houses and the infrastructure that goes with it.

 

they can't even build one hospital properly, the definitely do not know how to facilitate building houses that is affordable or halt the skyrocketting land prices thanks to their zoning (there is so much land but you can't build on them, and they are locked up by private landholders). 


tdgeek
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  #2365360 3-Dec-2019 09:26
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Governments don't build houses, you and I do with the help of a builder

 

They do build social housing but that's not the topic


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  #2365423 3-Dec-2019 09:38
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tdgeek:

 

Governments don't build houses, you and I do with the help of a builder

 

They do build social housing but that's not the topic

 

 

apparently the govt has a lot to do with it

 

i had spoken to property developers and they tell me this.

 

the policy of zoning apparently is the single cause of the land prices skyrocketting.

 

here is one article that may help explain.

 

the other reason for high house prices is the cost of building. govt policy may have some play in it but there is just no competition in skilled labour (also some govt policy responsibility) and building material (well, that i can't blame the govt .. or can i ...)

 

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland


tdgeek
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  #2365436 3-Dec-2019 09:50
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You said Govt does the building. Lots of factors. Land Use? Why? Did that work well until the last few years when prices took off? Same with construction costs. That didnt just change. A house price is not what its worth its what I will pay for it. Low deposit, low interest. Builders are ripping it off, they have gone form cost + margin to inflated house price less costs = profit

 

But yes many other factors as well


DarthKermit
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  #2370550 8-Dec-2019 16:41
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A house in my street has a RV of $355,000. Owners were asking 430+. It sold in less than a month for 460. It's a two bedroom house, 104 sq metres. Prices are going nuts.


tdgeek
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  #2370585 8-Dec-2019 19:22
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DarthKermit:

 

A house in my street has a RV of $355,000. Owners were asking 430+. It sold in less than a month for 460. It's a two bedroom house, 104 sq metres. Prices are going nuts.

 

 

RV is meaningless. You would find that most houses go for a figure relative to the RV but not the RV. Maybe 10% below or above, all depends on when the RV was, and improvements and location.. I'd go by the house.co.nz type of sites to see local sales

 

If the RV was old, you'd expect it to be above when you sold. 

 

Our house has a new RV just a week ago. Down by 10k. I know from local sales it will get 80k above that. Thats not bias, I keep an eye on it. Not that we plan to sell.


DarthKermit
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  #2370594 8-Dec-2019 19:50
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I realise that. RV is just the current value the council works off. Any house is only worth as much as someone's prepared to pay for it.

 

I keep an eye on my street house sales out of interest's sake. This 460 grand house is in immaculate condition and has a few other features that I can see would have appealed to the buyer.

 

Just four houses away from this house, another sold for an even $400,000 in March 2019. This was only 10 grand above the RV and it was a four bedroom house. Go figure. :)


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