New mains pressure HWC placement.

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#2779254 16-Sep-2021 11:08

decibel:

Don't forget to then use the existing 230v feed to the cupboard to connect up one of those little wardrobe heaters and you are away laughing.

Don't forget that if you give advice about re-purposing the existing HWC 230V feed for a heater, you should also give advice that the protection at the fuse board may now be in-adequate and need to be altered by a professional......

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Bung

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#2779308 16-Sep-2021 13:08

Leading the witness or feeding out more rope "Why do you think the breaker will need changing?"

Fred99

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#2779335 16-Sep-2021 13:44

Plumbers are pretty sure that the old HWC had been connected up to a wetback, that was probably in a coal or wood range in the kitchen - removed >30 years ago, so I think the HWC was original - and had lasted almost 60 years.

The circuit is actually on a 10A wire fuse, so yes - it needs changing. A bit annoying because there's a box full of new breakers, RCDs and RCBOs sitting in the basement, replacing the switchboard was supposed to happen before the HWC was replaced. All the light circuits need to be upgraded - it's all 2 core TPS, and it's not going to be a fun job, hence we've been putting it off, because that's going to be a bit of nasty job.

New position of the HWC is closer to the switchboard, but it's probably easier to run new cable than muck around shifting the existing cable.

Sparky has been surfing - if he wants a hot shower today, then he needs to get his act together.

elpenguino

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#2779347 16-Sep-2021 14:03

Bung: Leading the witness or feeding out more rope "Why do you think the breaker will need changing?"

HWC are not required to go through an RCD. Once you re-use the cable for an appliance outlet/hot point, an RCD is required for the new circuit.

Is it a new circuit if you re-use the cable ? You'll have to argue that one with someone more familiar with the regulations.

In any case, the rating of the breaker/fuse on that circuit needs to be matched to the cable and other circuit details.

All a PITA for Fred99 if his fuse board 'isn't quite there yet'.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Fred99

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#2779451 16-Sep-2021 17:21

All good - done and dusted within 8 hours of calling, no leaks, nothing blew up.

We did shift the cable despite my wish to run new one, our boy is too mean, thought it was better to get me to undo and redo about 100 cable clips because he isn't paying for my labour and I wasn't paying him for anything. Now I'm covered in dust and spiderwebs, need a shower, and that's still a couple of hours away unless I'm brave enough for a cold one (nope).

Was a 5 minute job for sparky to change the 10A fuse to a 16A plug in breaker on the old board.

Plumbers also changed over the shower mixer - old one was a venturi type that couldn't be converted. Kitchen sink mixer had been dripping very slowly - of course sod's law was that was on the hot side - so it's now dripping rather fast, so that's a job for tomorrow. I'll probably just replace the whole mixer - they suggested the cost for a new cartridge would probably be most of the cost of new mixer/faucet, and a high probability that even finding the part would be a big mission.

Good plumbers, fast, tidy, and price was right.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2779463 16-Sep-2021 18:05

elpenguino:
Bung: Leading the witness or feeding out more rope "Why do you think the breaker will need changing?"

HWC are not required to go through an RCD. Once you re-use the cable for an appliance outlet/hot point, an RCD is required for the new circuit.

Is it a new circuit if you re-use the cable ? You'll have to argue that one with someone more familiar with the regulations.

In any case, the rating of the breaker/fuse on that circuit needs to be matched to the cable and other circuit details.

All a PITA for Fred99 if his fuse board 'isn't quite there yet'.

If permanently connected, a heater is fine not being protected by an RCD. It's only sockets and lighting (and other stuff like damp situations) that need RCDs currently.

We generally size the overcurrent protection for the cable, not the appliance, so it doesn't matter whether a 2.5mm^2 cable feeds a HWC, a dozen sockets, one socket with a phone charger, or a hardwired 50W heater - a 16A breaker is fine in all cases (but the sockets require RCD protection).

However, new work can't be protected by a rewireable fuse, and most interpret that pretty strictly - anything more than strict replacement of parts gets a breaker.

Sounds like it's all moot, though. And that 10A SERF might have blown on a new 3kW element. Cylinder will probably heat up a fair bit faster now.

Fred99

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#2779851 17-Sep-2021 11:53

Fred99:

Kitchen sink mixer had been dripping very slowly - of course sod's law was that was on the hot side - so it's now dripping rather fast, so that's a job for tomorrow. I'll probably just replace the whole mixer - they suggested the cost for a new cartridge would probably be most of the cost of new mixer/faucet, and a high probability that even finding the part would be a big mission.

Turned out they were wrong, new ceramic cartridge was in stock at my local M10, cost about $35, and was 20 minute job to replace. Should have been a 5 minute job, but when I put it back together the mixer worked the wrong way around - oops. Disassemble the old one and realise that the rotation direction to open and close the flow can be changed by turning the ceramic disc on valve 180 degrees.

Fred99

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#2780723 19-Sep-2021 17:52

Hah. Of course the cylinder didn't fit out the door frame. There was a date stamp on the cylinder - made in 1960, so was original, the house completed in 1962. Large cupboard joinery built in front, not really practical to pull it apart without damage.

So I climbed in the cupboard space, and attacked the outer shell with an angle grinder and sable saw, releasing about 1/2 a wool sack load of the ground up carpet they used to use for insulation, which stank putrid fumes when sparks from the grinder hit it, the half rotten wool and jute where it had been wet for a while adding extra aromas, masked up, fogged and dusted up safety glasses, standing thigh deep in putrid fluff sprinkled with jagged shards of sheet metal. All in a day's work weekend leisure.

I got the inner copper cylinder out unscathed. My SO wants me to polish this up and use it for some kind of sculpture thing. I think it looks like a giant metallic ribbed condom, inflated, but it's worth $70 as scrap.

elpenguino

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#2780764 19-Sep-2021 19:11

Fred99:
Hah. Of course the cylinder didn't fit out the door frame. There was a date stamp on the cylinder - made in 1960,

Geez. They don't make em like they used to.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

neb

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#2780773 19-Sep-2021 19:42

Fred99:
So I climbed in the cupboard space, and attacked the outer shell with an angle grinder and sable saw, releasing about 1/2 a wool sack load of the ground up carpet they used to use for insulation, which stank putrid fumes when sparks from the grinder hit it,

It's OK, the asbestos wool in there will keep it from burning.

Bung

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#2780796 19-Sep-2021 20:35

AFAIK the "insulation" in those old cylinders was jute underfelt as used under carpets.

decibel

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#2780799 19-Sep-2021 20:58

Fred99:... I think it looks like a giant metallic ribbed condom, inflated, but it's worth $70 as scrap...

Expensive condom ..

Fred99

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#2780870 20-Sep-2021 08:43

Bung: AFAIK the "insulation" in those old cylinders was jute underfelt as used under carpets.

The stink of it when scorched smelled like burning wool, but certainly looked like it had jute fibres in there as well. I did check how flammable it was before ripping in with an angle grinder, would burn when exposed to a flame, but not sustain fire - in a handful of the stuff anyway. Very glad to be rid of it - whatever it was.

Bung

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#2780880 20-Sep-2021 09:11

decibel:
Fred99:... I think it looks like a giant metallic ribbed condom, inflated, but it's worth $70 as scrap...

Expensive condom ..

It's expensive because it has holes in it.

It could be worth more as scrap now it has the outer stripped off. I had one like it stolen by the neighbour's boy and his pothead mates. They got $86 a few years ago and that was the no questions asked and we throw it straight in the shredder price.

KellyP

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#2780914 20-Sep-2021 10:22

This came across this on Twitter:

https://www.freethink.com/series/make-it-count/instant-hot-water

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