Electricity low user plans to be phased out

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#2780706 19-Sep-2021 16:30

toejam316:

I'd much rather the government take direct action to provide additional resources like the Winter Energy Payment to aid with the real cost of the transmission network for end users who are vulnerable.

Is that the same winter energy payment we give to anyone who gets super, regardless of whether they're getting $24K a year or $240K a year?

Not hard to figure out what's going to happen to energy rates if that's the best we can do in terms of 'targeted' assistance.

nic.wise

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#2780708 19-Sep-2021 16:56

Scott3:

If you are on the cusp, of 8000kWh/y the impact on your should be very minor. More in summer, less in winter.

Low user rates are only meant to be available for primary homes (it was put in place to target low income houses with low power use, but it turns out that power use is a poor indicator of socio-economic status, especially with the availability of solar PV systems). Bach's aren't ment to be on low user plans (unless they are being used as primary homes), but I suggest many people will have falsely declared one adult lives primary at the bach even if that is not the case.

Assume you are on waiheke? $2.849 for 91 at BP... And a cable feeding power from the mainland, so farily normal power prices. Plus the longest return trip possible being under 50km... I can see why it is Nissan leaf central.

Our winter use x 12 is just over. Our summer use x12 is way under. Now I have 12 months of bills from ecotricity I need to go back and look again.

you might be right about the batches tho. I assumed anyone could get the low rate…. Wouldn’t put it past a lot of people tho if it’s not well enforced. A spa running would look like a person… or 2.

yes. On Waiheke. 2.84 on a good day, and I use 95 😢. I’d get a leaf but the Mrs wants to go on road trips and camping, and we can’t quite justify a PHEV Mitsi. Need to bust the spreadsheet out for cost of renting a RAV for the 2-3x a year we need one.

power prices are just Auckland rates. Nothing special. I could go nearly a week without having to charge a leaf with 140km range, and vector have free public chargers around the island too. The taxi operators LOVE them.

Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz

tdgeek

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#2780726 19-Sep-2021 18:03

A wide variety of comments. "They" say some will pay more some will pay less. Ok. Also, while daily rates will rise, kWh rates should reduce. That's the "plan"

So, generators will get more, for (hopefully) expansion. Billing system operators which are the rest will need to compete, to encourage me to use them. Im with EK, no solar buyback (although I cant get solar, but they have now brought that in), no peak/offpeak (but they just brought that in)

I expect a lot of billing system operators will tailor deals so they can get me (and clip that ticket), it "should" promote more kWh competition.

Scott3

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#2780836 19-Sep-2021 23:49

nic.wise:

Our winter use x 12 is just over. Our summer use x12 is way under. Now I have 12 months of bills from ecotricity I need to go back and look again.

you might be right about the batches tho. I assumed anyone could get the low rate…. Wouldn’t put it past a lot of people tho if it’s not well enforced. A spa running would look like a person… or 2.

yes. On Waiheke. 2.84 on a good day, and I use 95 😢. I’d get a leaf but the Mrs wants to go on road trips and camping, and we can’t quite justify a PHEV Mitsi. Need to bust the spreadsheet out for cost of renting a RAV for the 2-3x a year we need one.

power prices are just Auckland rates. Nothing special. I could go nearly a week without having to charge a leaf with 140km range, and vector have free public chargers around the island too. The taxi operators LOVE them.

In that case your winter bills will go down a little, and you summer bills up by a bit more (perhaps $30 a month?).

I don't think they audit the power profile to check for number of occupants.

With regards to the renting a car for holiday's, the non financial factors would come into it a lot too.

Are you willing to pack all your camping gear into wheeled suitcase or something like the below, get to the ferry terminal, catch the fast very into town, and walk / taxi to one of the cbd rental car places (say go rentals on beach road)?

www.macpac.co.nz/wanderer-quad-folding-camp-cart/119724.html

If so you have saved a bunch on car ferry tickets and are no longer tied to sealink availability.

And if you are renting a car anyway and are restricted to how much stuff you can move at once, getting on the airport bus instead and picking up a rental car in the south island instead becomes a more attractive option.

On the other hand there is a convenience of loading your own car in your driveway, rental SUV's sell out or get really expensive at peak travel times, and regardless get expensive if you want a two week trip.

Scott3

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#2780838 20-Sep-2021 00:21

tdgeek:

A wide variety of comments. "They" say some will pay more some will pay less. Ok. Also, while daily rates will rise, kWh rates should reduce. That's the "plan"

So, generators will get more, for (hopefully) expansion. Billing system operators which are the rest will need to compete, to encourage me to use them. Im with EK, no solar buyback (although I cant get solar, but they have now brought that in), no peak/offpeak (but they just brought that in)

I expect a lot of billing system operators will tailor deals so they can get me (and clip that ticket), it "should" promote more kWh competition.

Elimination of low user rates should be pretty close to zero sum for the industry. Shouldn't effect the wholesale side, and retail is fairly competitive.

Might see a bit of an uptick in power use, and all the currently low user plan households will see their marginal rate drop from say 30c/kWh to 20c/kWh. Which might be cheap enough that some decide to throw away the old gas cabinet heater, or to run an extra fridge... This might see a bit of need for expansion.

I imagine the increasing daily fees will spur some to shop around, which may be good for competition.

lNomNoml

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#2780843 20-Sep-2021 02:15

Terrible idea electricity is already expensive as is this will just make it more, this is going to hurt a lot of low income families.

Bung

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#2780867 20-Sep-2021 08:39

Scott3:
Might see a bit of an uptick in power use, and all the currently low user plan households will see their marginal rate drop from say 30c/kWh to 20c/kWh. Which might be cheap enough that some decide to throw away the old gas cabinet heater, or to run an extra fridge... This might see a bit of need for expansion.

I imagine the increasing daily fees will spur some to shop around, which may be good for competition.

Is the kWh rate you're quoting the full retail price including energy and lines components?

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Scott3

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#2780897 20-Sep-2021 09:39

lNomNoml:

Terrible idea electricity is already expensive as is this will just make it more, this is going to hurt a lot of low income families.

The idea when the low user regulations were brought in were to benefit poorer households, but it turns out that electricity use is a poor indicator for socio-economic status.

A stuff article today quotes Paul Fuge, manager of Consumer NZ "Powerswitch" website: "Fuge said about 40 per cent of customers in lower-income households, such as pensioners who lived alone or with a partner, were on the LFC [Low Fixed Charge]."

By implication this means that 60% of lower income households are either off grid (very small percentage) or on standard user plans and are paying more for power because of this market distortion.

That said, there is no argument that this plan will make power bill of very low power use households significantly higher. A fund has been set up to support those households that are both very low power use and in poverty.

Scott3

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#2780899 20-Sep-2021 09:44

Bung:
Scott3:

Might see a bit of an uptick in power use, and all the currently low user plan households will see their marginal rate drop from say 30c/kWh to 20c/kWh. Which might be cheap enough that some decide to throw away the old gas cabinet heater, or to run an extra fridge... This might see a bit of need for expansion.

I imagine the increasing daily fees will spur some to shop around, which may be good for competition.

Is the kWh rate you're quoting the full retail price including energy and lines components?

Yes, but there is massive variability between different area's.

I'm in Auckland, currently paying 18.79c/kWh + $2.162/day (for everything, incl GST) on a standard user plan. Low user plans are typically around 30c/kWh + 32c/day incl GST. Some areas like northland get charged dramatically more.

dolsen

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#2781078 20-Sep-2021 13:02

I see this headline "3 in 5 households to get lower power bills as Government axes 'poorly targeted' electricity regulation" from Newshub and I do wonder if this is accurate. I can't see any requirements for any reduction in price in this change, just the fact that if you were using less electricity and were benefiting from it, you will no longer be able to at the end of the phase out.

Previous changes made by the minister have only, for me, increased my price. The removal of the prompt payment discount hasn't, to my knowledge, resulted in average prices reducing by 10-15%. Thanks to the ministers involvement, now if you change providers, you have a increase in price due to the removal of the discount. By not linking the change to a requirement to reduce the overall price, and removing the benefit from people who are currently better off under it, I can not see the electricity sector generously reducing the price of anything. I can see why they are so eager to support this change.

elbrownos

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#2781339 20-Sep-2021 21:42

dolsen:

I see this headline "3 in 5 households to get lower power bills as Government axes 'poorly targeted' electricity regulation" from Newshub and I do wonder if this is accurate.

There is suspiciously little justification for that claim.

In fact I wonder if they've got it backwards. 60% of households are on low user plans, and 100% of these can expect higher power bills after the lower user plans are scrapped.

Stu

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#2781344 20-Sep-2021 21:52

Considering those on Standard plans will no longer be subsidising those on the low user plans, the theory is the standard rates should come down. I won't hold my breath.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

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Scott3

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#2781362 20-Sep-2021 23:24

Stu: Considering those on Standard plans will no longer be subsidising those on the low user plans, the theory is the standard rates should come down. I won't hold my breath.

Yes. Retail side of the market is very competitive, so I would expect standard prices to be lower than the would have otherwise been, but this may still be less than inflation over the multi year phase out.

This means that dwellings on standard plan's, and those near the change over point will be better off, along with those who should have been on a standard plan regardless of this change.

Stu

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#2781364 20-Sep-2021 23:35

Of course, pricing may rise at that time also, which could result in no decrease for those expecting one. They'll find a way. Yes, I'm rather sceptical. Much like with supermarket regulation and lower grocery bills. And the cost of fuel....

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

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old3eyes

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#2781508 21-Sep-2021 09:28

WyleECoyoteNZ:

This just increase's the cost of living in this country *sigh*

We're a family of 4 on a Low User plan, last year 6650 kWh, I'd put his mainly down to Gas hot water and elements.

A quick calculation, that would see my last bill go from $178 (614 kWh) to $232 ($54 increase) at a Daily charge of $1.80 (up from 30 cents)

I just looked at my power bill and I will be in the same boat with my costs going up about the same amount.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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