Solar options for home in 2022.

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11294 posts

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#3244019 3-Jun-2024 06:41

dantheperson: So it's a question of how much do you value that backup in a powercut function?

Ask anyone who experienced Orkland's most recent weather event and had any kind of battery backup and they'll tell you "quite a bit, actually".

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3244048 3-Jun-2024 11:11

neb:
dantheperson: So it's a question of how much do you value that backup in a powercut function?

Ask anyone who experienced Orkland's most recent weather event and had any kind of battery backup and they'll tell you "quite a bit, actually".

I can't remember the last unplanned power cut here. At least 5 years I reckon. I figure if its short - no bother the food will keep. If it's long, well the batteries are probably gonna be too small. But I appreciate there are other parts of Auckland that see more frequent cuts during storms than us that can find some goldilocks zone on battery capacity.

Im still searching for a product that would give me a small amount of storage for load shaving my peak. So running in parallel to my grid, rather than a backup in-series configuration. Something affordable around 0.5 to 1.5 kW inverter, hooked up to a 12v off the shelf lithium battery. Plenty of inverter chargers that size, but seems you have to step up to an expensive 3kw model to get any load sensing and shifting features, which just makes it too much for a little hobby that will probably never pay itself back.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3244078 3-Jun-2024 15:01

Jase2985:

HarmLessSolutions:

For side by side comparison of our similar sized systems, both without battery storage our data for May was:

Generation 784 kWh

Total consumption 935 kWh

Self consumption 604 kWh (77%)

Import from grid 330 kWh

May invoice ~$95 (incl. $32 daily supply charge) Our Octopus account runs from 16th month so this is from Solar Analytics but within a $1 or 2.

We're charging a Leaf and a Polestar2, house water is pumped, we have a logfire for home heating and our HWC is controlled by a Paladin diverter.

We're missing some early morning sun recently due to tree shading but otherwise 9.5kW of PV north facing with 39 degree slope feeding an 8.2kW Fronius single phase inverter limited to 5kW export. Best day's production we've seen so far was 63 kWh in early January.

You are making about 50kWh over the month more than me, 1.6kWh per day.

On my east facing array (3.3kw panels) im seeing a max of about 1.4kWh at 1030am, but i dont think its adding more than about 3-4kWh on a good day due to the low sun and the direction of the panels. I think they will come into their own in summer and really broaden my power curve, but they aren't doing much going into winter.

We are a fully electric house. We have just had to upgrade our dryer, which was 15+ years old, and got one with a timer which will help move some power round, next thing will be installing a hot water cylinder timer to have that heat at night.

Different usage strategies based on consumption demands, FIT and off peak rates I guess. Our primary intent is to maximise self consumption and as our consumption remains fairly constant across the seasons this results in increased percentage of self consumption through winter, and increased import due to shorter generating hours. January we made 1,310 kWh, self consumed 49% of that and imported just 170 kWh, so a net credit invoice. Our FIT is currently 17c with Octopus so we ran credit accounts for 5 months across summer.

In our case the auto throttling of HWC and EVSE is key to maximising self consumption. In your case a low night tariff makes for different prioritisation.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dantiberian

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#3247900 12-Jun-2024 15:14

I've been following the precipitous decline in the cost of solar panels over the last few years, and wondered when the right time is to move onto solar. However, I've found it much harder to tell whether the drop in solar panel costs is being passed on by NZ installers.

Does anyone have a sense of whether the overall cost to install solar is dropping over time?

pih

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#3247901 12-Jun-2024 15:24

I've been watching too, but it doesn't seem that way. I think two reasons: every year or so a new panel comes out that has increased performance and maybe the same or marginally higher price than the previous year's models.

Second, it seems that down here on the bottom of the world the margins to land the new products here (and have them certified, perhaps? Idk), plus the cost to install are only going up more than the price of panels is going down, and represents a greater proportion of the overall cost to get them installed. So in summary, no, the price does not seem to be going down unless you are willing to DIY parts of it.

WolfmanNZ

139 posts

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#3248113 12-Jun-2024 16:54

pih: I've been watching too, but it doesn't seem that way. I think two reasons: every year or so a new panel comes out that has increased performance and maybe the same or marginally higher price than the previous year's models. Second, it seems that down here on the bottom of the world the margins to land the new products here (and have them certified, perhaps? Idk), plus the cost to install are only going up more than the price of panels is going down, and represents a greater proportion of the overall cost to get them installed. So in summary, no, the price does not seem to be going down unless you are willing to DIY parts of it.

I got a quote last year for a battery installation but had to hold off. I have just requoted for the exact same thing and its gone up $3k in 12 months (actually 10 months) and been told its mostly due to increased labour costs. Similar situation with some renovation work, massive labour increases. I don't see those costs decreasing, and maybe rising higher, so yeah agree wouldn't wait around too long to see if the hardware drops a bit in price.

eonsim

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#3248180 12-Jun-2024 20:22

I'd say the prices have dropped a bit for what you get, get a quote 4 years ago and it'd likely be for a 4-5kW system (14 or so 360W panels), now a standard quote will be for a 6kW system. Similar price, same number of panels, but the panels are more powerful so you get a bit more for your money. I think you can get entry level systems for less if you go out and say you only want a 4kW system, but they'll typically quote a larger system than they used to.

Batteries still aren't cheap though and adding one to a solar system is likely to double the cost of the system.

If you look at the EMI data for average new install size it's gone from about 4.8kW in 2020 to 6.2kW in 2024, and prices seem similar or slightly cheaper.

https://www.emi.ea.govt.nz/Retail/Reports/GUEHMT?DateFrom=20130901&DateTo=20240430&MarketSegment=Res&Show=CapacityAvgNew&_rsdr=ALL&_si=v|3

angski

59 posts

Master Geek

#3248214 12-Jun-2024 22:14

if you are thinking it is going to be cheaper, it is not.
Let me explain. Auckland Mayor wants Port of Auckland (POA) to generate a certain percentage of returns.

POA has already informed the importers, price are all the way up

"He said the peak access charge was likely to increase from $95 per container to about $295 in the next three years."

So, imo, all imports will skyrocket next year onwards.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/516224/ports-of-auckland-to-increase-price-volumes-to-deliver-1b-profits-to-council

LightbulbNeil

57 posts

Master Geek

#3248293 13-Jun-2024 10:55

We made the decision to outlay 8.5 years of 2023 power bills to get a system that would mean no power bills . The reason we did not go with a battery initially is due to the very high cost of the batteries and their supposedly lifetime. With model planes, as the batteries get older, they take the same amount of energy to fully charge as a new battery does, but get down to %70 or even less of the charge capacity. Inverters last around 10 years, so when it requires replacing, we may add a battery then. Not everyone can spend 8 years or so for power in advance. But a system costing 3 to 4 years of power can still make a significant savings for a household . It does take a lot of research to find the provider that that will benefit you the most. Some who have an electric car for example can get some really good night rates for charging their car, for example. Others will have a car that allows for the house to draw off the car battery during the time of higher electricity prices etc. No one system is the answer for everyone. When we did our house, it was encouraged to have the house as 3 phase, and it lowers the current draw on any one phase, especially at cooking times. Now,they are only encouraging 2 phases for houses, with all the infill housing around us. Another 8 units are being built on our supply line. As the supply gets more stretched on the current infrastructure, so will their become more limitations for export overt the grid. Well network, now has introduced limits per phase of feed in KVA . But we got in before the limits were introduced for more than 1 phase. Today we are predicted to make a total of 12kwh from an effective 13kwh set up. Which is expected for the mid winter, and will no doubt have days of even less production. Finding $400 for a winter power bill can be a tough find for many.

It would be interesting of they ever bring in power share to NZ, where you can nominate an address that can share the daytime solar production.

Dilbonius

16 posts

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#3251617 21-Jun-2024 14:11

Hi folks,

Just wondering if anyone can weigh on in my solar quotes. I'm near Christchurch so the decision to get solar and if so how big is a little unclear. Azimuth is 350deg and the roof angle is 28deg. We work from home, don't have a mortgage and run some A/c and irrigation in the summer months; Without those factors I don't know if solar would pay off.

I got quotes from Harrisons (Chris) JA 420w panels and Fronius 5kw gen24 inverter on a single phase with Fronius smart meter. I also contacted World Solar (Steve) and they are pushing for three phase with Solax 10kw but it's very difficult to argue the numbers there. The ROI is based on seasonal hourly usage and Meridian EV plan rates below and a green loan enabling returns from other investments. Can anyone tell me which system is better spec'd. Harrisons said if they go any larger than 8kw then it a three phase inverter would be required. World Solar said Harrisons 3-phase inverter is bad because it doesn't do uneven load balancing.

edit: the formatting really got f'kd up so I'll post a screenshot.

These are the electricity rates I'm with Meridian for 2 years.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

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#3251623 21-Jun-2024 14:25

@dilbonius, The EECA online calculator will give you some basic economic info including ROI. From what you're claiming your use is I don't think going beyond 5kW is viable, unless you've got plans to charge an EV in future your export at current FIT rates will be excessive.

ETA. Just noticed the daily charge of over $3.00. That's pretty brutal!

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

WolfmanNZ

139 posts

Master Geek

#3251624 21-Jun-2024 14:39

HarmLessSolutions:

@dilbonius, The EECA online calculator will give you some basic economic info including ROI. From what you're claiming your use is I don't think going beyond 5kW is viable, unless you've got plans to charge an EV in future your export at current FIT rates will be excessive.

ETA. Just noticed the daily charge of over $3.00. That's pretty brutal!

Or you could start using the Heat pumps more, use your clothes dryer more during the day etc - feel less 'guilty' about using power (not sure if thats applicable but its another way to look at it)

Those rates are so cheap!(From a North Island perspective)

Dilbonius

16 posts

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#3251626 21-Jun-2024 14:46

We already do use the heat pumps all day.

The EECA calculator is pretty useless. I don't have a power bill to feed it so it way over estimates what I'm paying per power and tells me 7 years to pay is back and a savings of $2500 a year. Even with solar we'll be on the standard user rates due to an EV and lots of other loads. If I shift a couple kwh of hot water heating to the sunny hours with a timer then the savings are more like $1200/yr or a 9% ROI = 11 year pay back. So the EECA calculator is off by about 50%. Other factors are if the cost of electricity goes up we win more, or if the cost of solar panels drops we lose.

I'm more interested in which hardware is the better value for money the JA+Fronus stuff or Solax/Huawei.

Jase2985

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#3251627 21-Jun-2024 14:54

My questions are, I'm gathering you have 3 phase power at home? How are the loads distributed across the phases?

How much power does your lines company let you feed back to the grid? Single and 3 phase? This will help dictate the size of the system you should get.

Given, like me, you have a better export than night rate, it would be sensible to try and shift as much usage to the night rate power as possible and sell as much power back to the gird as you can to cover your night power and any excess will start taking off the day rate power, use the grid as a battery. You will still have a base load of stuff in the house, but if you can cover this and maximise your export, you should be doing ok. I dropped my power bill by nearly half in May, and that included adding an EV on top of what we normally used.

Dilbonius

16 posts

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#3251630 21-Jun-2024 15:15

Yes, three phase to the switchboard. I'm not sure how the loads are setup or how to even check that. I think Harrisons were planning to put everything on one phase. Grid export is capped at 5kw.

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